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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #641
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Anything that is possible must therefore be logically possible. It's the way logic works. Most people simply do not understand what logic actually is, so they misuse the term.
    But, I DO understand the term.

    The problem here is that you are trying to dictate a limit to the limitless.

    You are arguing that someone with limitless power cannot defly logic.
    You are arguing that someone with limitless power cannot create a contradiction that is true.

    If the power is limitless, then he can.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-25-09 at 04:19 PM.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The incomplete premise means that even if I use the argument in a logical framework relative to Earth, I am actually using a false premise and have thus created an unsound argument.
    Yes, but the problem is that we don't know what is possible in the other universes. You can only know what color sky Mars has if you were able to see from Mars. You can only know what the totality of reality is only if you can see from all the possible universes.

    In saying that God cannot do the impossible, you may be giving a false premise. You have no idea what is possible or impossible in another universe, whether god can create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift, or create 4-sided triangles, if God can defy logic itself, etc. If you do not know what is impossible, how can you say God cannot do it? It's the same as saying as you don't know what God cannot do.

    The ultimate answer is you cannot know. You only have a choice, not the correct choice, but only a choice. You can only choose to believe whether God can defy logic or not. You're unable to determine if it is correct or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Cool Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Most Big Bang theories posit that all of the matter and all of the energy currently found in the universe had condensed/was compressed into a single point.

    Thus, mass + energy.
    But before that there was nothing this mass had to come from somewhere as did the energy,

    You are forgetting two things Alpha and Omega.

    Begining and end unless natural law has been changed?
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  4. #644
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    But, I DO understand the term.

    The problem here is that you are trying to dictate a limit to the limitless.

    You are arguing that someone with limitless power cannot defly logic.
    You are arguing that someone with limitless power cannot create a contradiction that is true.

    If the power is limitless, then he can.
    Your argument is based entirely on using adjectives as nouns. The contradiction exists because you used a word incorrectly. Not because of anything else. It is impossible real nouns to create a contradiction. You can't "create" an "impossible", because, well... it's not a thing. If it was made into a thing, it ceases to have the same meaning. Thus it would be equivocation, and the argument fails because of that fallacy.


    Also, the part in bold proves you can't possibly understand the term and use it in that fashion.

    Logic is not something that can be "defied". It's the study of arguments. The "laws" of logic only act upon logical arguments. If someone does something that "defies logic", then all they have done is prove a logical argument wrong.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 11-25-09 at 04:35 PM.

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    Cool Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Not only that, matter and energy cannot be separated. Energy is really the exchange in electrons, which themselves are made of matter. The two terms are the same things, it's just that energy is describing an event that the object goes through. Matter is simply the "object."
    If energy was that easily harnessed we would already have alternitive fuel.
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Yes, but the problem is that we don't know what is possible in the other universes.
    Exactly.

    Thus, we cannot make a logically valid argument that negates the possibility for something without confining those premises to include only that which we do know. i.e. our portion of reality.

    We do not need to know what is possible elsewhere in order to present premises confine what we do know to the places we do know.

    Any logical argument that presents something as being impossible across all of reality is necessarily illogical.

  7. #647
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm assuming no more than a true premise is true. Nothing more, nothing less.
    which is exactly the problem. How do you know its true?

    Prove that logic is absolutly true since you claim it is. You can't without using logic which is to assume the thing that you wish to prove; a fallacy.

    Incomplete premises mean that the argument is unsound and invalid.
    My contention is not with the the rules of logic. It is with the epistemelogical question of whether logic is true/valid.

    I believe it is but I cannot prove it is. Thus it is not absolutely true. Logic may not be true in some other universe.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #648
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Exactly.

    Thus, we cannot make a logically valid argument that negates the possibility for something without confining those premises to include only that which we do know. i.e. our portion of reality.

    We do not need to know what is possible elsewhere in order to present premises confine what we do know to the places we do know.

    Any logical argument that presents something as being impossible across all of reality is necessarily illogical.
    Then when we say God cannot do the impossible, it is an illogical argument isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  9. #649
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    If energy was that easily harnessed we would already have alternitive fuel.
    Where did I say it can easily be harnessed?

    Energy is actually an event, not a thing. Matter is a thing. Energy is the movement of matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  10. #650
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    which is exactly the problem. How do you know its true?
    I don't need to know if it is true for it to actually be true. I can always tell when it can never be considered true, though.

    I don't define what a logically sound argument is, the trueness of the premises and the validity of the logic does. My understanding of the truth will not alter the soundness of the logic because the truth of the premises is independent of my understanding.

    An argument that is logically sound is dependent on the whole of reality, not just our understanding of reality. If our understanding is flawed, the logical argument is unaffected. Only our perceptions of that argument gets effected.

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