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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #541
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Asinine Argument is Asinine.


    :D

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think the dilemma here is that people seem to be presuming that conceptualizing the existence of something which cannot exist doesn't change the fact that it simply cannot exist.

    An omnipotent being has unlimited power to do anything and everything that can be done.

    An omnipotent being does not have unlimited power to do anything and everything that cannot be done.

    Such a being can do everything that can be done. The fact that something simply cannot do something doesn't place a limitation upon the power of the omnipotent being.

    For example, an omnipotent being cannot make a yellow circle that is a blue square. That's because a yellow circle that is a blue square cannot exist.

    Some things just simply cannot be done. It is not a limitation upon teh omnipotent being to be unable to do the impossible.
    It is irrational to demand of a logical being to perform the illogical.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If the things God can not do were possible, then God would not be omnipotent.
    Okay. While that limits discussion of what God is, that is the only logical way to approach the trait.

    I'm not sure if I could care less, or even if I know who that is, but I am sure that you're bringing up a tangent, so I'm ignoring it.
    You really don't know who that is?

    You're introducing a dynemic into the discussion which I never have.
    You never did explicitly. But by arguing that the illogical cannot be performed by God, you are indeed arguing that God is bound by something above itself, something it cannot change.

    Logic is not a being to hold authority.
    Not in a traditional sense no.

    There is no paradox.
    Under your limited definition no.

    That simply doesn't follow. I mean you're taking two completely alien concepts and composing sentences pretending they have anything to do with each other.
    Yes it does. If God is allegedly the highest, most powerful concept out there, but it is limited in capacity by logic, then how can God be the highest, most powerful concept when itself is bound by logic?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think the dilemma here is that people seem to be presuming that conceptualizing the existence of something which cannot exist doesn't change the fact that it simply cannot exist.

    An omnipotent being has unlimited power to do anything and everything that can be done.

    An omnipotent being does not have unlimited power to do anything and everything that cannot be done.

    Such a being can do everything that can be done. The fact that something simply cannot do something doesn't place a limitation upon the power of the omnipotent being.

    For example, an omnipotent being cannot make a yellow circle that is a blue square. That's because a yellow circle that is a blue square cannot exist.

    Some things just simply cannot be done. It is not a limitation upon teh omnipotent being to be unable to do the impossible.
    All you are doing is redefining omnipotence to fit a logical view. There is absolutely nothing other then human desires to deal with the potential faults of God that argues that God is bound by logic. Basically you want God to be logical as an illogical God creates significant problems.

    And yes, if there is something that limits the power of an omnipotent being then there is a limitation! Your argument dictates that illogical/nonsensical acts cannot be performed and you then define the concept of God to fit that belief. Except that your original premise that the illogical/nonsensical acts cannot be performed is itself begging the question. You first assume that they cannot be performed and then make your view of God fit that notion.

    Neither you nor Jerry have first proven that illogical/nonsensical acts cannot be performed.

    I have constantly asked why God could not do it, but have received no answer as to why the acts themselves cannot be performed. Only that God cannot perform such acts.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Under your limited definition no.
    I'm sorry did the website list me as an author? It's not MY definition. It's Webster's definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child, take 1 View Post
    Yes it does. If God is allegedly the highest, most powerful concept out there, but it is limited in capacity by logic, then how can God be the highest, most powerful concept when itself is bound by logic?
    "I'm still not going to accept anything you say regardless" clause noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child, take 2 View Post
    Yes it does. If God is allegedly the highest, most powerful concept out there, but it is limited in capacity by logic, then how can God be the highest, most powerful concept when itself is bound by logic?
    Redundant qualifier meant to confuse the casual reader noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child, take 3 View Post
    Yes it does. If God is allegedly the highest, most powerful concept out there, but it is limited in capacity by logic, then how can God be the highest, most powerful concept when itself is bound by logic?
    "Being", not "concept". We are not speaking of anything abstract, but a literal being.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child, take 4 View Post
    Yes it does. If God is allegedly the highest, most powerful concept out there, but it is limited in capacity by logic, then how can God be the highest, most powerful concept when itself is bound by logic?
    The measurements which define "highest, most powerful" do themselves only exist within a logical construct.

    The simple act of describing God as "highest, most powerful" necessarily encapsulates God withing the realm of logic.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-24-09 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #546
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    "Any discussion outside of a logical framework is inherently irrational and thus not to be taken seriously. "

    Meaning, you only want to deal with the logical views of God despite having no argument to prove that the illogical and nonsensical views of God are not inherently correct.

    While our measurements do exist only in a logical construct, that does not equate to God not being able to do the illogical.

    You are doing exactly what Tucker does. You don't actually have any argument as to why God can't do the illogical. You just fit it to suit your beliefs. That's fine. Just admit that.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    "Any discussion outside of a logical framework is inherently irrational and thus not to be taken seriously. "

    Meaning, you only want to deal with the logical views of God despite having no argument to prove that the illogical and nonsensical views of God are not inherently correct.

    While our measurements do exist only in a logical construct, that does not equate to God not being able to do the illogical.
    A logical discussion necessarily precludes the illogical.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You are doing exactly what Tucker does. You don't actually have any argument as to why God can't do the illogical. You just fit it to suit your beliefs. That's fine. Just admit that.
    As I've said many times: God can not do those things because those things can not be don at all.

    God's abilities fulfill the definition of the word "omnipotent", hence we can accurately describe God as "omnipotent".
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-24-09 at 03:48 PM.

  8. #548
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A logical discussion necessarily precludes the illogical.
    True, but we first assume a logical discussion on a being we have not first proven to be logical. As I stated earlier, that cuts out a significant portion of what God is/could be. In a sense, we ourselves are limiting God.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    True, but we first assume a logical discussion on a being we have not first proven to be logical.
    Anything at all whatsoever: if it exists in this universe, it therefore must be logical and have a perfectly rational nature.

    Otherwise it could not exist in this universe.

    Rather we understand that logic or nature is another matter.

  10. #550
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Omnipotence means everything is logically possible.
    That would be limited.
    Omnipotent is unlimited power.

    You may not understand how The Omnipotent defies the laws of logic -- but that in no way means He cannot do it.

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