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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #531
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Well if you're going to describe omnipotence in that manner, why go through the charades and pretenses of trying to be logical. Why go through the trouble of establishing logical evidences and such?

    If God doesn't follow the rules of logic, why use logic to explain it?

    God can NARFLE THE GARTHOK! He needs not puny human logic!

    Does his quickery biffle you?

    Fribbel Micdemort sandasar zuping.

    It's hard to explain not using logic...

  2. #532
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Being omnipotent means that you can both break and not break the rules at the same time.
    See that doesn't even make any sense.

  3. #533
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Power limited to only the logically possible is limted.
    That's right, but the Webster definition of "omnipotent" allows limitation so long as any such limitation is outside of what can be don.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Omnipotence is having power not limited.
    God can do everything which can be don, QED God is omnipotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And really...
    Having the power to defy logic seems impossible because of the limits of the human mind. It is no different than the classic 'flatlander' scenario where the inhabitants of flatland cannot conceive of what we call 'up'.
    I don't get the reference, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    To believe that God is limited to the limits we place on the universe due to our understanding of same is rather narcisisitic.
    Good thing I never did any such thing, then

  4. #534
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    One does not have to be able to do anything and everything at all what-so-ever to be omnipotent.
    I'd like to see the dictionary you are using.

    One needs only virtually unlimited authority or influence.
    But that renders them limited and therefore without capacity to do anything.

    What you describe is the capacity to do somethings. That's hardly "All powerful."

    In this universe God has unlimited authority or influence. The rules of this universe do not allow a 4-sided triangle to exist, therefor God does not need to be able to create a 4-sided triangle in order to be omnipotent.
    Since when was God bound by the laws of his universe?

    Your argument places limitations upon God that are inherently not there.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    If God doesn't follow the rules of logic, why use logic to explain it?
    Hence why this is futile. I do recall saying that earlier. Omnipotence by itself makes no logical sense. Attaching it to bunnies much less God makes them illogical as well.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'd like to see the dictionary you are using.
    Webster is the accepted credable dictionary freely available to everyone online.

    omnipotent - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But that renders them limited and therefore without capacity to do anything.
    The ability to do what can not be don is not a requirement to be omnipotent.

    So long as one can do everything which can be don, one is omnipotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    What you describe is the capacity to do somethings. That's hardly "All powerful."
    If one can do anything which can be don, one is "all-powerful".

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Since when was God bound by the laws of his universe?
    Since always.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Your argument places limitations upon God that are inherently not there.
    My argument describes the limitations on God witch were already there.

    I could take your argument seriously if you took an existing limitation cited by Christians on God. This whole 4-sided triangle thing is just silliness.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-23-09 at 11:08 PM.

  7. #537
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Webster is the accepted credable dictionary freely available to everyone online.

    omnipotent - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    Hmmm.

    [ame=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&hs=1kR&defl=en&q=definemnipotent&ei=sFALS-j4GoOAsgO6-vieAw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CA cQkAE]definemnipotent - Google Search[/ame]

    Looks like I win. As usual.

    The ability to do what can not be don is not a requirement to be omnipotent.

    So long as one can do everything which can be don, one is omnipotent.
    Therefore you argue that God is indeed limited? That it is prohibited from engaging in certain actions?

    A yes or no answer would be appreciated.

    Since always.
    Descartes suggests otherwise.

    Furthermore you are indeed arguing that there is something above God, something that limits God's capacity. That suggests your view of God is, to some, heretical. If God is thereby limited by Logic, then Logic is above God.

    My argument describes the limitations on God witch were already there.

    I could take your argument seriously if you took an existing limitation cited by Christians on God. This whole 4-sided triangle thing is just silliness.
    Except that the limitation on God to deal with the paradox creates bigger problems.

    If God is allegedly the most powerful being in existence responsible for all, the notion that God is somehow limited implicitly argues that God is indeed not the creator of all as there is something above God that limits its capacities.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #538
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. The bible then goes on to tall us what came next for our little blue marble. No place that i am aware of does it say only the Earth. There are countless planets in the Universe that we can look at as pert of that creation of the Heavens.

    If we are to believe in God we must then believe that the laws of nature were also a divine creation along with the laws of physics. The laws of physics leads us to postulate that since we know gravity's effect is in direct relation to the mass of a planet, beings from another world would come in sizes consistent with the relative gravitational pull of that planet. Therefore to find intelligent life that was relatively close to our size and make up their home planet would necessarily have to be close to the size of earth.

    Then you get into whether they might be carbon based as we are our of some other make up.

    I believe the chances are we will shortly find life within our solar system of a primitive nature and that will signle that the Universe is in fact teaming with life in various forms.

    Chances are going on very close to ZERO any life we ever find made a primitive crop circle. That is a ludicrous notion.

  9. #539
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Hmmm.

    definemnipotent - Google Search

    Looks like I win. As usual.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Therefore you argue that God is indeed limited? That it is prohibited from engaging in certain actions?

    A yes or no answer would be appreciated.
    Yes.

    God is limited, I've said so many times on this thread. There are things God can not do.

    Since the things God can not do are things which can not be don at all, God is still omnipotent.

    If the things God can not do were possible, then God would not be omnipotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Descartes suggests otherwise.
    I'm not sure if I could care less, or even if I know who that is, but I am sure that you're bringing up a tangent, so I'm ignoring it.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Furthermore you are indeed arguing that there is something above God, something that limits God's capacity. That suggests your view of God is, to some, heretical. If God is thereby limited by Logic, then Logic is above God.
    You're introducing a dynemic into the discussion which I never have.

    "Above" is your word, not mine, so if you want to make that argument, that's fair game, but please do not misrepresent my argument by claiming I said there was anything "above" God.

    Logic is not a being to hold authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except that the limitation on God to deal with the paradox creates bigger problems.
    There is no paradox.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If God is allegedly the most powerful being in existence responsible for all, the notion that God is somehow limited implicitly argues that God is indeed not the creator of all as there is something above God that limits its capacities.
    That simply doesn't follow. I mean you're taking two completely alien concepts and composing sentences pretending they have anything to do with each other.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-23-09 at 11:38 PM.

  10. #540
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    :l
    God is limited, I've said so many times on this thread. There are things God can not do.

    Since the things God can not do are things which can not be don at all, God is still omnipotent.

    If the things God can not do were possible, then God would not be omnipotent.
    I think the dilemma here is that people seem to be presuming that conceptualizing the existence of something which cannot exist doesn't change the fact that it simply cannot exist.

    An omnipotent being has unlimited power to do anything and everything that can be done.

    An omnipotent being does not have unlimited power to do anything and everything that cannot be done.

    Such a being can do everything that can be done. The fact that something simply cannot do something doesn't place a limitation upon the power of the omnipotent being.

    For example, an omnipotent being cannot make a yellow circle that is a blue square. That's because a yellow circle that is a blue square cannot exist.

    Some things just simply cannot be done. It is not a limitation upon teh omnipotent being to be unable to do the impossible.

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