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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #481
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, God can not brake His own rules.


    The test doesn't fail, the person you administer the test to can fail.

    The answer, by the way, is "no".

    Well, technically it isn't that God cannot break his own rules, maybe he can, maybe he can't

    The thing to realize here is that if we're going to discuss God in a logical manner, and then posit that God can be illogical, it becomes an exercise in futility. God, therefore, must be a logical being if we are to seriously discuss about God. Otherwise there really is no point in discussing this. This, however, doesn't eliminate the possibility that God can break his own rules. It's just that no one should take this position seriously, if we are to do this in a logical manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  2. #482
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Knowing why doesn't change the fact that God can only do everything logically possible.
    Why can God only do the logical?

    I take it you reject the notion of an all powerful being?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #483
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If God is omnipotent, then He can defy logic.
    Indeed.

    Thats why the "can he create a rock so large He cannot lift" test fails.
    Actually all that test proves is that God is illogical and can engage in the nonsensical. It does not prove God cannot exist.

    Can God make itself cease to exist in all forms? Yes.
    Then God can make itself re-exist from complete oblivion.

    Does that make ANY logical sense? No, but it is still possible within the bounds of omnipotence.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #484
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Well, technically it isn't that God cannot break his own rules, maybe he can, maybe he can't

    The thing to realize here is that if we're going to discuss God in a logical manner, and then posit that God can be illogical, it becomes an exercise in futility. God, therefore, must be a logical being if we are to seriously discuss about God. Otherwise there really is no point in discussing this. This, however, doesn't eliminate the possibility that God can break his own rules. It's just that no one should take this position seriously, if we are to do this in a logical manner.
    While I understand your argument and I do agree, there is quite a problem in first assuming God must be logical. You basically shut off all discussion and thought to a great portion of what God could be/is.

    And we must at the end of the road admit that we cannot disprove that God is an illogical being. In a sense, all discussions on such beings are ultimately futile.

    Logically, if we examine omnipotence as a trait in itself, we must conclude God is illogical if it holds such a trait. Hence why most of these discussions are for fun.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Why can God only do the logical?
    The logically possible.

    If it's imposable, then it can't be don, like a 4 sided triangle.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I take it you reject the notion of an all powerful being?
    I don't see why you think that.

  6. #486
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The logically possible.

    If it's impossible, then it can't be don't, like a 4 sided triangle.
    But if a being has the power to do anything, then making a 4 sided triangle is within its grasp. Does it make any sense? No. Is it still included in the set of possible actions under "unlimited power?" Yes. Omnipotence by itself makes no sense regardless of what it is attached to.

    I don't see why you think that.
    I don't see why you think that. Unless you define omnipotent as really limited power.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    While I understand your argument and I do agree, there is quite a problem in first assuming God must be logical. You basically shut off all discussion and thought to a great portion of what God could be/is.

    And we must at the end of the road admit that we cannot disprove that God is an illogical being. In a sense, all discussions on such beings are ultimately futile.

    Logically, if we examine omnipotence as a trait in itself, we must conclude God is illogical if it holds such a trait. Hence why most of these discussions are for fun.
    Actually, I agree with you. I'm not assuming that God must be logical, I'm saying that if we are to discuss God logically, we can't have an illogical God. Logical discussion cannot happen because we begin with the illogical.

    If we are discussing about an illogical God, then we can pretty much posit anything we want as a premise or argument. But those arguments would just be nonsense. But who knows? Nonsense might turn out to be the truth

    But for all practical reasons, we must choose to be logical rather than illogical. Excuse me while I tuck away my agnosticism.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  8. #488
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But if a being has the power to do anything, then making a 4 sided triangle is within its grasp. Does it make any sense? No. Is it still included in the set of possible actions under "unlimited power?" Yes. Omnipotence by itself makes no sense regardless of what it is attached to.

    I don't see why you think that. Unless you define omnipotent as really limited power.
    Who said God could do just anything anyone thought up? There's a list of things God can not do. Since God can not do these things and is still omnipotent, we therefore know that "omnipotent" only includes the power to do what can logically be don.

    Since "omnipotent" only regards what can logically be don, and God can do everything which is logically possible, God is therefore omnipotent.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well, if you put 2 and 2 together...
    It makes 4

    Whats your ****ing point?
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    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I'm nitpicking but this could spark a good discussion.

    I don't believe the following claims can be shown as true:
    1) Everything that exists can be explained through math (what about emotions, conciousness, conceptualization. How would one explain these things with math?)

    2) Concepts exist independent of our understanding.
    (This is the ol' "if a tree falls in the woods" question. If there isn't a mind to contemplate the universe and existence then does it exist? I would argue 'yes' but I don't believe its easily supported conclusion. I think its the best answer but that doesn't make it true. Some theists have used this reasoning to argue TAG (transcendtal argument for the existence of god))
    In one way or another numbers, mathematical equations or formulas can be applied to define or measure anything. Perhaps not the abstract idea of what something like an emotion is, but you can definitely measure and quantify the reactions in the brain that evoke or are a result of emotions.

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