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Thread: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

  1. #471
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Trying to prove or disprove the existence of God will always involve logical fallacy.
    Which is why one shouldn't try. But what one can do is:

    1) Make emotionally persuasive arguments (just as theists do) to dissuade people from believing or to question their beliefs. E.G., slavery, mysogeny, original sin, empty sacrifice, child molesting clergy, money grubbing churches, etc.

    2) Make well reasoned arguments against gods unlikely existence. E.G., scientific explanations, bibilical errancy, biblical revisionism, uselesness of intercessory prayer, the triune god, exclusivity,

    Not everyone is on the same intellectual level so the approach most effective will vary.

    Some will misunderstand this as an attempt to convert people to atheism. The overall goal is not to convert people to atheism, but to get people to think critically. To introduce people to the silly and absurd problems with their beliefs whether they be a theist or an atheist such that they learn to use the tools that will protect them from credulity or error in the future.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #472
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I'm nitpicking but this could spark a good discussion.

    I don't believe the following claims can be shown as true:
    1) Everything that exists can be explained through math (what about emotions, conciousness, conceptualization. How would one explain these things with math?)

    You make an excellent point. Life in general is something not explained via mathematics, thus all things that occur as a byproduct of life (such as all of the examples you've given) are not explicable via mathematics. I concede that point. My mistake.

    2) Concepts exist independent of our understanding.
    (This is the ol' "if a tree falls in the woods" question. If there isn't a mind to contemplate the universe and existence then does it exist? I would argue 'yes' but I don't believe its easily supported conclusion. I think its the best answer but that doesn't make it true. Some theists have used this reasoning to argue TAG (transcendtal argument for the existence of god))
    I wouldn't call the universe a "concept", so I'm not sure I follow this one. I can give concrete evidence that some things most definitely existed prior to humans even existing, let alone having the ability to contemplate them.

    Quasars.

    We only know of there existence in very recent years. In fact, we can interact with a product of that existence. But what we actually interact with from them is billions of years old.

    We can only see the light that they shed billions of years ago. For us to measure and record that light today, they had to have existed prior to there being a human "mind" to contemplate them.

    If existence were defined by the ability of a mind to contemplate a thing, we would never know of quasars because they were only contemplated on after they were discovered.

    Quasars were not defined by our contemplations, our contemplations about quasars were defined by the quasars existence.

    If something exists before it is contemplated on, then it exists independently of contemplation.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 11-20-09 at 06:41 PM.

  3. #473
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    To introduce people to the silly and absurd problems with their beliefs whether they be a theist or an atheist such that they learn to use the tools that will protect them from credulity or error in the future.
    I bolded that portion because I fully agree with you. People form all walks of life and of all beliefs need to be encouraged to think more critically about their views, regardless of what those views are.

    Some of the best intellectual beat-downs I've ever received were by people whom I totally disagreed with and still do, but they were better at thinking critically than I was about a topic.

  4. #474
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You mean all human cultures have a language.
    OK.....so.....?
    So you clearly don't understand the concept of universality either.

    Why I am not surprised

  5. #475
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    So you clearly don't understand the concept of universality either.

    Why I am not surprised
    Enlighten us.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #476
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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No. A "thing" can be neither logical nor illogical. Only arguments and reasoning can be logical or illogical.

    It does not mean what you are using it to mean.
    I'm joking around with you
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    So you clearly don't understand the concept of universality either.

    Why I am not surprised
    The Pirahã language's existence proves that the concepts within language are not entirely universal.

    Their language is interesting because they don't have any words that describe specific numerals. Yet they still perform math.

    albeit very rudimentary math.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 11-20-09 at 07:16 PM.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm joking around with you
    That's illogical!


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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    How do you attempt to support this claim?
    That's an irrational question.

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    Re: Does life on other planets disprove the BIble

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If God is omnipotent, then He can defy logic.
    No, God can not brake His own rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thats why the "can he create a rock so large He cannot lift" test fails.
    The test doesn't fail, the person you administer the test to can fail.

    The answer, by the way, is "no".

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