View Poll Results: Can a person be anti Gay marriage and not be a bigot?

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Thread: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

  1. #81
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    "but it's definitely racism nonetheless" I still think we're not using the right word here. It might be subconscious PREJUDICE but really, you'd be hard pressed to find a logical human being who honestly thinks the color of one's skin makes them any better or crappier than someone else.
    The distinction between prejudice and racism that I make is this:

    "Racism - Racial prejudice and discrimination that are supported by institutional power and authority. The critical element that differentiates racism from prejudice and discrimination is the use of institutional power and authority to support prejudices and enforce discriminatory behaviors in systematic ways with far-reaching outcomes and effects."

    -Enid Lee, Deborah Menkart and Margo Okazawa-Rey (eds.) Beyond Heroes and Holidays: A Practical Guide to K-12 Anti-Racist, Multicultural Education and Staff Development
    So, to me, your earlier example of "black people all like fried chicken" is only prejudice, but when prejudice is tied in with the application of institutional power and it has effects like making it dramatically harder for black people to get jobs, it crosses the line into racism whether it is conscious or unconscious.

    Either way though, we agree on the substance- employers are prejudiced against black people and that is causing a situation where black people have a much harder time getting jobs. Whatever we want to call that, it's a serious problem.

    This is a good discussion! Much appreciated!

  2. #82
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The distinction between prejudice and racism that I make is this:



    So, to me, your earlier example of "black people all like fried chicken" is only prejudice, but when prejudice is tied in with the application of institutional power and it has effects like making it dramatically harder for black people to get jobs, it crosses the line into racism whether it is conscious or unconscious.

    Either way though, we agree on the substance- employers are prejudiced against black people and that is causing a situation where black people have a much harder time getting jobs. Whatever we want to call that, it's a serious problem.

    This is a good discussion! Much appreciated!

    I kind of agree with you, but hate and discrimination don't change their core definition just because they cross from our own minds into the Institution. They simply just have more severe consequences.

  3. #83
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I am asking the people who are pro gay marriage this question..........
    I'd say "no". Let's be honest - everyone against homosexual marriage believes that something is wrong with a homosexual individual. At best, it could be some sort of genetic 'disease', and while they may sympathize, they don't believe that homosexuals should have certain rights simply because they believe homosexuality to be an abnormal or 'wrong' practice. At worst, homosexuality is a choice, a perversion that leads individuals into vile sexual acts with members of the same sex. Those who oppose homosexual equality - including the right to marry someone of the same sex - have various opinions that run the gamut between these two extremes. But in no way, shape, or form do they believe homosexuals to be entirely 'equal' to heterosexuals.

    Seriously, such a vigorous defense of the institution of marriage from homosexual inclusion is perplexing enough to begin with, and this problem is exacerbated by those individuals who insist they are not prejudiced, but vehemently oppose homosexual marriage based on arbitrary factors and dubious actualities ("babies do best when raised by heterosexual parents", or "the people should decide if it's right or wrong"). In my opinion, we should focus on educating the public on homosexuality so as to eventually eliminate this bigotry.

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'd say "no". Let's be honest - everyone against homosexual marriage believes that something is wrong with a homosexual individual. At best, it could be some sort of genetic 'disease', and while they may sympathize, they don't believe that homosexuals should have certain rights simply because they believe homosexuality to be an abnormal or 'wrong' practice.
    I understand how someone could disagree with such a position, but how is that position the bigoted kind of wrong instead of some other kind of wrong?

  5. #85
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I understand how someone could disagree with such a position, but how is that position the bigoted kind of wrong instead of some other kind of wrong?
    'Some other kind of wrong' being what, exactly?

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Don't flatter yourself Navy....you should be able to figure it out through my answer.

    Why would anyone in this country feel that THEY are entitled to certain rights and privleges while denying those same rights and privleges to another human being?

    I believe that everyone is entitled to the same rights and privileges that I am. If I felt otherwise....I would be selfish and bigoted.
    Got it.... so if a gay guy wants to marry a gay woman, he and she should have the same rights to do so as a straight couple.

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    Call me whatever you like: Gay marriage is an absurd invention of the extreme left.

    Although conservatives are staunchly opposed to homosexuality on the grounds of it being irrefutably immoral, conservatives are not "anti-gay." Conservatives believe that gays should not be discrimnated against, and should be allowed the basic rights afforded to normal people, but the idea that a man and a man can be called a "married couple" is so preposterous that one has to wonder at how insane liberal policy in American can go. Next, I suppose liberals are going to be storming the streets for the right of animals to marry...
    No, they will want the right to marry animals.... and attempt to have children.

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    'Some other kind of wrong' being what, exactly?
    Like "factually inaccurate" wrong, or "disproved evidence" wrong, or "illogical interpretation" wrong, or any other hew of wrong you can dream up.

    What makes the point of view that homosexuality is some kind of error automatically bigoted? Why bigoted specifically?

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Got it.... so if a gay guy wants to marry a gay woman, he and she should have the same rights to do so as a straight couple.
    He and she do have the same rights.

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    Call me whatever you like: Gay marriage is an absurd invention of the extreme left.

    Although conservatives are staunchly opposed to homosexuality on the grounds of it being irrefutably immoral, conservatives are not "anti-gay." Conservatives believe that gays should not be discrimnated against, and should be allowed the basic rights afforded to normal people, but the idea that a man and a man can be called a "married couple" is so preposterous that one has to wonder at how insane liberal policy in American can go. Next, I suppose liberals are going to be storming the streets for the right of animals to marry...
    This post is just flat out ridiculous... You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to go around ranting about how god hates gay people and that they should be denied the right to marry, fine, be that way, but you can't do that and at the same time pretend you aren't anti-gay and that you oppose discriminating against gay people.

    It sounds to me like you want to discriminate against gay people, and you do carry around biggotted feelings against them, but deep down you know that's wrong, so you're tacking an incongruous disclaimer on the end rejecting your own stance...
    Last edited by teamosil; 11-08-09 at 02:47 PM.

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