View Poll Results: Can a person be anti Gay marriage and not be a bigot?

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Thread: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

  1. #51
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    We mostly just hear the views (1) of people who speak the loudest, and (2) which are presented by the opposition in order to make the position look ignorant and bigoted.

    I think that most people who are against gay marriage don't really know why they are against gay marriage, and thus don't speak out. That doesn't mean that they don't have legitimate concerns- and thanks admitting that those legitimate concerns exist.



    Changing a legal definition which has been used for thousands of years and was not even disputed until very recently should not happen until society itself has accepted it, i.e. has put it to a 50 + 1 vote.
    Basic human rights should never have to be put to a 50%+1 vote.

    Can you imagine if civil rights for blacks and other minorities had to be put that that vote?
    Can you imagine if inter-racial marriage had to be put to that vote?
    Can you imagine if the right of women to vote had to be put to that vote?

    We'd still be living in a country where all of our rights were decided by rich white landowners.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    We mostly just hear the views (1) of people who speak the loudest, and (2) which are presented by the opposition in order to make the position look ignorant and bigoted.

    I think that most people who are against gay marriage don't really know why they are against gay marriage, and thus don't speak out. That doesn't mean that they don't have legitimate concerns- and thanks admitting that those legitimate concerns exist.

    Changing a legal definition which has been used for thousands of years and was not even disputed until very recently should not happen until society itself has accepted it, i.e. has put it to a 50 + 1 vote.
    So because something is legally define for thousands of years, it should never be changed? Is everything that has ever been legally defined for thousands of years acceptable?

    The dispute has only become recent because the social status of gays has changed recently. When once it was against social norms to be out, it is now, recently, acceptable. The reason it has not been disputed is because it was, until recently, not at all acceptable to be gay.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Basic human rights should never have to be put to a 50%+1 vote.

    Can you imagine if civil rights for blacks and other minorities had to be put that that vote?
    It was, in a way; every major civil rights legislation was just that- legislation, and as such, had to be voted on by a representative body. Constitutional Amendments have to be voted on too.

    Can you imagine if inter-racial marriage had to be put to that vote?
    I suspect that it would eventually have been allowed, as it is now.


    Of course, it was decided by the Supreme Court because it was unconstitutional in the first place, where the current definition of marriage is not.

    Can you imagine if the right of women to vote had to be put to that vote?
    It was, actually. The 19th Amendment was approved democratically, as are all amendments to the Constitution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    So because something is legally define for thousands of years, it should never be changed? Is everything that has ever been legally defined for thousands of years acceptable?
    I never said that. In fact, I support gay marriage. I just think it should be approved democratically rather than through judicial activism.

    The dispute has only become recent because the social status of gays has changed recently. When once it was against social norms to be out, it is now, recently, acceptable. The reason it has not been disputed is because it was, until recently, not at all acceptable to be gay.
    That's partially true, but the fact is that there are still people who consider it acceptable to be gay and are against gay marriage because they don't want their traditions to be overturned.
    Last edited by Dav; 11-07-09 at 10:49 PM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It was, in a way; every major civil rights legislation was just that- legislation, and as such, had to be voted on by a representative body. Constitutional Amendments have to be voted on too.

    I suspect that it would eventually have been allowed, as it is now.


    Of course, it was decided by the Supreme Court because it was unconstitutional in the first place, where the current definition of marriage is not.

    It was, actually. The 19th Amendment was approved democratically, as are all amendments to the Constitution.

    I never said that. In fact, I support gay marriage. I just think it should be approved democratically rather than through judicial activism.

    That's partially true, but the fact is that there are still people who consider it acceptable to be gay and are against gay marriage because they don't want their traditions to be overturned.
    So the 19th Amendment was democratically approved but the 14th was not? Is it judicial activism if the Court applies the 14th Amendment to same-sex marriage?

    I also prefer that things happen in a democratic way, but the 14th Amendment was passed democratically, so if the Court applies that to the issue of same-sex marriage, then it was done according to our system of government, a Constitutional Democracy. Our 50 + 1 vote system has limits.
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I am asking the people who are pro gay marriage this question..........
    They can but you aren't one of them, so it's a moot point. I already saw your "Sodom and Gomorrah" comment which kind of established your irrelevance (outside of the loonier areas of the Buy-bull belt and Iran.)

  6. #56
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    So the 19th Amendment was democratically approved but the 14th was not? Is it judicial activism if the Court applies the 14th Amendment to same-sex marriage?
    Yes, it is.

    The main argument of same-sex marriage being a Constitutional right is that it violates the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment. But gays do have equal protection under the law. Defining marriage as something that is only between a man and a woman doesn't exclude gays from the process, it just doesn't allow anyone to marry someone of the same sex. Now, in Loving vs. Virginia, the case was made that defining marriage based on race violated equal protection, but it would be very hard to make the same argument for defining marriage based on gender. Intent matters when interpreting the Constitution, and whoever wrote the 14th Amendment likely didn't even think of gay marriage as plausible, since the very idea itself is a new one.

    Apparently, there have actually been cases brought to court on this issue, and they've all been rejected:

    Loving v. Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Being against gay marriage for Politically Incorrect reasons makes you a bigot...well, the left will probably find a way to call you a racist.


  8. #58
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Being against gay marriage for Politically Incorrect reasons makes you a bigot...well, the left will probably find a way to call you a racist.

    Yup, and if you support gay marriage for any reason, the right will find a way to call you names too. You just can't win for trying.
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yup, and if you support gay marriage for any reason, the right will find a way to call you names too. You just can't win for trying.
    Exactly, and see, then they call you a fag-enabler. Whatever the hell you've enabled them to do I may never know.

  10. #60
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    Re: Can a person be against Gay Marriage and not be a bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Last vote I saw was the Maine repeal, in which there were two major viewpoints: liberals and bigots.

    As others have pointed out, there are sensible arguments for opposition to gay marriage. But instead of those arguments, we get a whole bunch of "it's just wrong" and unseemly preoccupation with buttsex.
    It's too bad they can't see the brilliance behind the "you're either for gay marriage or you're a bigot" argument. Retards.

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