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Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

Terrorist or Not

  • Yes, A terrorist Attack

    Votes: 38 54.3%
  • no

    Votes: 32 45.7%

  • Total voters
    70
I'm not sure that our views changed in response to Bush being president. It could have just been that so many people were killed while he happened to be in office, and we got a more graphic look at what terrorism entails on a really personal level.

I think you are correct but my thinking was more along the lines of the Patriot Act and how the views on what does or does not make you a terrorist and how everday citizens lost a bit of their freedoms under that act.

We do not like the way you are acting? We can declair you a Terrorist, kick your door down and do illegal search simply cause we do not like who ya talking to, where you hanging out, your religion, etc.
 
But isn't the basis of most religions about control in some ways? Even some alt. religions have a somewhat control vibe?

Mankind really messed up religion as a whole. :(

Posting in Epic Thread.

epicdude86-albums-stuff-picture1151-masters-their-religion.png
 
I think you are correct but my thinking was more along the lines of the Patriot Act and how the views on what does or does not make you a terrorist and how everday citizens lost a bit of their freedoms under that act.

Ahhhh. Okay, I see where you were coming from (I think;)), but I don't know how many average Joes are aware of just what the Patriot Act entails. Most Americans are so busy just getting by and trying to have a good life that they don't pay attention to details, especially when it sounds like a patriotic thing going on in DC. In all honesty, I suspect "we aint seen nothing yet".
 
I think you are correct but my thinking was more along the lines of the Patriot Act and how the views on what does or does not make you a terrorist and how everday citizens lost a bit of their freedoms under that act.

We technically didn't 'lose' freedom so much as the Government 'gained' it.
 
If the OT does not apply to Christians in any way then why is it even in the Bible? :confused:

The OT very much does apply to them considering that it is the basis of that religion. lol.

99.9% of the OT does not apply to daily Christian life. The only thing that does outside of historical reference and insite into God's nature is 6 of the commandments.

Matthew 19:16-21

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’d and ‘love your neighbor as yourself."

20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Pretty simple if you actually know the Bible.

And don't even bother with the old but he said "the law will not pass away" etc. He was speaking to the Jews, not gentiles.
 
But isn't the basis of most religions about control in some ways? Even some alt. religions have a somewhat control vibe?

(

Many of the tribal religions of days gone by were nothing about control from what I can tell, but more about reverence, luck, meaningfulness and celebration or rites of passage. Mass religion has tended to make it about control, but after many years of questioning the validity of religion or even the need for it, I currently think there may be a necessity for it in some aspects regarding maintaining civility in large populations. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but I do tend to value its importance more than I did, say, 30 years ago.
 
99.9% of the OT does not apply to daily Christian life. The only thing that does outside of historical reference and insite into God's nature is 6 of the commandments.

Matthew 19:16-21

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’d and ‘love your neighbor as yourself."

20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Pretty simple if you actually know the Bible.

And don't even bother with the old but he said "the law will not pass away" etc. He was speaking to the Jews, not gentiles.

That's like reading a textbook for it's appendices and saying that only a few pages of the actual book are worth reading as well.
 
That's like reading a textbook for it's appendices and saying that only a few pages of the actual book are worth reading as well.

Fallacy man.

Now do you have anything of substance? Like actual biblical reference to refute it?
 
But seriously? Necromancy? Idols? C'mon that's superstition and slander against the Catholic Church. I was completely taken aback at how many Baptists think that we're:
1) Witches and
2) we worship Mary.

They HONESTLY thought this, as in their PARENTS or PASTORS taught it to them.

Either you believe what the Bible says or you don't.

If you believe in God but call his laws superstition, what does that say about your religion? Or even your faith?

As if other Christians haven't proclaimed they can do (and 'perform) miracles?

They have, and they are no less false profits.

Yeah, discussing religion, especially inter-christianity is a slipper slope

Yep.

There's a mix of both, and it in no way really damns anybody anymore than other traditions of Christianity. For example, we still practice Grace through Thought AND Action. Baptists do not to the best of my knowledge. Thus my major beef with Protestants is the amount of stuff they leave out, and the amount of stuff they add in. That and I had a little run in with an English teacher at Campbell University (A Southern Baptists School, I should have known they'd have that much of a problem with a Catholic. :lol:)

OK, but I am not Baptist and they are wrong as well. Nothing should be added or taken away. Either it is biblically sound or it is not.

We still should have a solid, unifying leadership or, again, we end up with what happened during the reformation to present.

Can't happen as long as man ignores the word for his own.

Unless someone hears God for themselves, then nothing they believe is condoned by him, they're merely taking it all in faith. How can we prove it? The Bible is one of the most contested books in history, is it not? I know it's borderline blasphemy to say it but, Faith alone is not proof to anyone but yourself.

You are trying to say the Bible is not correct? It covers everything you need to be a good Christian, period. Everything else is not biblical and is not from God.

I'm pretty sure the old testament has some verses, and while that's not the basis of Christianity, it's still in the Bible.

So what? If they do not apply it is not applicable.

I also THINK (Not for sure) Jesus was quoted in Matthew about a sword (Some crazy evangelical kid at Campbell was quoting scripture), but that was more a metaphor than an actual, "hey, I'm coming back with a sword if you don't convert" statement.

You are talking about Matthew 10:34-39

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

He was not saying literally a sword. He was talking about what would happen with the advent of this new religion.

Context is a hell of a thing.

I was just discussing the Koran, and a friend of mine says the Koran doesn't say to initially convert at sword point and conversions are welcome at any time. but I'll believe that when they put the swords down...

The key word in that is initially.

I still don't know what I said that is was blanketing anyone.

"See, while Christian religious texts encourage violence, the majority stopped being violent and actually practice the 'turn the other cheek' strategy (Ya know, Kill 'em with kindness.)" - EpicDude86

Absolutly not true.
 
Fallacy man.

Now do you have anything of substance? Like actual biblical reference to refute it?

Actually I do. As you said earlier: "The OT does not apply to Christians in any way"


So, by your account, most of these books have no bearing on Christianity (And I will list books found in bibles used by both Catholics and Protestants)

Genesis
Tobit
Ezekiel
Exodus
Judith
Daniel
Leviticus
Esther
Hosea
Numbers
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
Joel
Deuteronomy
Amos
Joshua
Job
Obadiah
Judges
The Psalms
Jonah
Ruth
Proverbs
Micah
First Samuel
Second Samuel
Ecclesiastes
Nahum
Song of Solomon
Habakkuk
First Kings
Second Kings
Wisdom
Zephaniah
Sirach
Haggai
First Chronicles
Second Chronicles
Isaiah
Zechariah
Jeremiah
Malachi
Ezra
Lamentations
Nehemiah
Baruch
 
Either you believe what the Bible says or you don't.

If you believe in God but call his laws superstition, what does that say about your religion? Or even your faith?

That's a low blow, calling someone else's faith a superstition?

They have, and they are no less false profits.

Point is no one religion is free of corruption.


OK, but I am not Baptist and they are wrong as well. Nothing should be added or taken away. Either it is biblically sound or it is not.

Baptists are an offshoot of Protestantism, very similar core beliefs, lots of parallels too. And yes, We shouldn't tamper with it, simply interpret it as genuinely as possible.


Can't happen as long as man ignores the word for his own.

Get used to it. That's Man for ya.


You are trying to say the Bible is not correct? It covers everything you need to be a good Christian, period. Everything else is not biblical and is not from God.

And you're trying to say the OT has no bearing on Christianity...I don't care what branch of Christianity you're from, that's borderline heresy.



You are talking about Matthew 10:34-39

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

He was not saying literally a sword. He was talking about what would happen with the advent of this new religion.

Context is a hell of a thing.

yeah I believe I said that it wasn't in the right context.

"See, while Christian religious texts encourage violence, the majority stopped being violent and actually practice the 'turn the other cheek' strategy (Ya know, Kill 'em with kindness.)" - EpicDude86

Absolutly not true.

So I blanket termed Christian Religious Texts. You want me to apologize to them? Or do you want me to take back what I said about "The majority" who stopped being violent?


About that Matthew verse:

but that was more a metaphor than an actual, "hey, I'm coming back with a sword if you don't convert" statement.
 
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Actually I do. As you said earlier: "The OT does not apply to Christians in any way"


So, by your account, most of these books have no bearing on Christianity (And I will list books found in bibles used by both Catholics and Protestants)

Genesis
Tobit
Ezekiel
Exodus
Judith
Daniel
Leviticus
Esther
Hosea
Numbers
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
Joel
Deuteronomy
Amos
Joshua
Job
Obadiah
Judges
The Psalms
Jonah
Ruth
Proverbs
Micah
First Samuel
Second Samuel
Ecclesiastes
Nahum
Song of Solomon
Habakkuk
First Kings
Second Kings
Wisdom
Zephaniah
Sirach
Haggai
First Chronicles
Second Chronicles
Isaiah
Zechariah
Jeremiah
Malachi
Ezra
Lamentations
Nehemiah
Baruch

You have never read the OT have you? I am willing to bet you have not.

Subtract the genealogy's, Jewish law, historical details about Israel and you really have very little outside of "insite into the nature of God, and some of the Commandments. You know their are more than ten right? Oh did I mention King Solomons songs?

I did not say it was irrelevant, I said it has little to no bearing outside what I mentioned.
 
You have never read the OT have you? I am willing to bet you have not.

Subtract the genealogy's, Jewish law, historical details about Israel and you really have very little outside of "insite into the nature of God, and some of the Commandments. You know their are more than ten right? Oh did I mention King Solomons songs?

I did not say it was irrelevant, I said it has little to no bearing outside what I mentioned.

First off:
"The OT does not apply to Christians in any way" =/= "Has little to no bearing outside what I mentioned"


Secondly:
Yes, let's remove the useless 'fluff' and historical references and get to the nitty gritty. That sounds like the Christianity I know and love. Though since you don't think Catholics are Christians, then I can see how you'd believe this. In which case, fine by me that's your belief.

If that's how you see it, however, then I'm assuming you'd like to remove some stuff from the NT as well?

P.S. I took an Introduction to the Old Testament class, and discussed both Testaments somewhat in Christianity class at Campbell. Occasionally I'll read the books to try and find any interesting tidbits of information.

P.S.S.

"The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history" --Czech historian, Milan Hubl

You'd have us neglect the parts of the OT that some would say are easiest to prove? The Histories?
 
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This thread has totally derailed off topic... :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, but I don't think it's really going anywhere atm anyways.

Yes pretty much. It is not like the red herrings you have put forth in the last couple of replies have any bearing on what I said. They also have nothing to do with your original and erroneous blanket statement.
 
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First off:
"The OT does not apply to Christians in any way" =/= "Has little to no bearing outside what I mentioned"

The first is taken out of context of your statement and the second comment was referring to a completely different statement.

Nice try.

Secondly:
Yes, let's remove the useless 'fluff' and historical references and get to the nitty gritty. That sounds like the Christianity I know and love. Though since you don't think Catholics are Christians, then I can see how you'd believe this. In which case, fine by me that's your belief.

Please point out where I said any of this?

Your comment is not true in any way.

If that's how you see it, however, then I'm assuming you'd like to remove some stuff from the NT as well?

Please point out yet AGAIN where I said anything even close?

Again with untrue statements.

P.S. I took an Introduction to the Old Testament class, and discussed both Testaments somewhat in Christianity class at Campbell. Occasionally I'll read the books to try and find any interesting tidbits of information.

You seem to know very little for someone who "read the books."

Considering your characterization of my previous statements. I am now wondering if I should believe you as the evidence before me says otherwise.

P.S.S.

"The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history" --Czech historian, Milan Hubl

You'd have us neglect the parts of the OT that some would say are easiest to prove? The Histories?

Please point out where I said to "neglect" anything at all. Just because something does not apply it makes it no less historically relevant.

Nothing but Lie's about my statements and red herrings.

Nice.
 
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I just ask a few straightforard questions, myself.

Was the target civilian or military?

Was the perp invoking his religion as a motivating factor, or was the religion involved nominal?

"did the perp exhibit any behavior before hand that exhibited sympathies or support for terrorism in general, or a specific form thereof?

"does the perp have known connections to terrorist groups?

In answering these questions for the thing that went berserk, the answers would be "military", "yes", "yes" and "we don't know yet but quite possibly no".


I wouldn't say that ALL these criteria would need to be met, but the first one, alone, disqualifies the act from being considered terrorist. Considering the yes answers, though, I would tend to classify it as Jihadist guerilla war carried out by a lone individual -- a distinction that does not make the victims any less dead, mind you.

I really do not understand much of the apologia that arises whenever these sorts of events are discussed, but when a thing such as this expresses support for Islamic based terrorism and invokes Allah during their blood bath, it seems the height of sophistry to me to try to remove Islam from the equation with such a surgical precision that it did not contribute at all. Sure, those who indulge in such sophistry think they are defending those Muslims who do not share these arch views, but through such obfuscation, all people are revealing is tha they are reactionaries. They are reacting to those who might conflate terrorism with Islam to such a degree that they are synonymous , but simply crafting themselves as the mirror image thereof.
 
I just ask a few straightforard questions, myself.

Was the target civilian or military?

Was the perp invoking his religion as a motivating factor, or was the religion involved nominal?

"did the perp exhibit any behavior before hand that exhibited sympathies or support for terrorism in general, or a specific form thereof?

"does the perp have known connections to terrorist groups?

In answering these questions for the thing that went berserk, the answers would be "military", "yes", "yes" and "we don't know yet but quite possibly no".


I wouldn't say that ALL these criteria would need to be met, but the first one, alone, disqualifies the act from being considered terrorist. Considering the yes answers, though, I would tend to classify it as Jihadist guerilla war carried out by a lone individual -- a distinction that does not make the victims any less dead, mind you.

I really do not understand much of the apologia that arises whenever these sorts of events are discussed, but when a thing such as this expresses support for Islamic based terrorism and invokes Allah during their blood bath, it seems the height of sophistry to me to try to remove Islam from the equation with such a surgical precision that it did not contribute at all. Sure, those who indulge in such sophistry think they are defending those Muslims who do not share these arch views, but through such obfuscation, all people are revealing is tha they are reactionaries. They are reacting to those who might conflate terrorism with Islam to such a degree that they are synonymous , but simply crafting themselves as the mirror image thereof.

This is a case of a guy going postal.
 
Islam was not the problem in this guy's case.

Good to hear it.

Now, for those who realize he was invoking the name of Allah as he killed people and had previously expressed solidarity with Islamist terrorism, this intransigent, knee jerk position that lacks anything resembling analysis might be slightly less comforting.
 
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