View Poll Results: Terrorist or Not

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  • Yes, A terrorist Attack

    110 68.32%
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Thread: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

  1. #251
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Psychologically, we teach soldiers to marginalize and hate the enemy. What if a Muslim is being taught to kill Muslims? Wouldn't that drive him nuts?

    Not only that but he is uniquely singled out to counsel traumatized vets who have returned from the Iraq war with all their unfinished business about Iraq Muslims and terrorists.
    Soldiers are not taught to hate - my husband's been a soldier for almost 20 years, he doesn't hate anyone *shrug* So I don't know where you got that from.

    Right now they're actually teaching soldiers to understand the enemy, to see what separates an extremist from a traditional member of the Islamic faiths and so forth ... etc.

    They're taught cultural awareness (lots of it) and other things so they can understand and identify with the cultural and other differences before deployment.

    However - I understand your point and I agree to an extent. *If* he was constantly hearing people's prejudice or bigotry - that amount of "I hate people like you" from soldiers - with or without them knowing that he was Islamic (Muslim, etc) - would be an extreme emotional burden and likely to make anyone bend or break.

    If I was a psychologist and I had a lot of men telling me "I hate women, women are the bane of my existance and I want to kill them all" I'll probably crack rather quickly, regardless of my education and status as a psychologist.

    For Hasan I can see this being very applicable - it's not like you have a choice when you're assigned a Dr. If someone had a problem with Muslims, etc, and they were assigned to him then, evidently, their issues are going ot be discussed.

    But that might be beside the point - they haven't quite pinned down anything in particular. Maybe he had other issues that haven't even been rumored around, yet.
    Sometimes it's just foolish to try to understand the mind of the criminally insane.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    At some point thought DOES become 'probable cause' or 'imminent danger' among other things - when it comes to soldiers this is crucial. You're mental balance and focus is extremely important in regards to deployment and functioning on the battlefied.
    As soon as we can read minds this will be relevant. Until that time we cannot just go locking people up with no evidence or crime being committed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    He wasn't a regular doctor - he was cleared for deployment and if he was having obvious problems in the US then what would have happened if he DID deploy?
    Irrelevant if he had committed no crime, or showed a mental diminished capacity, but he did not. He was still able to preform his duty's without any apparent problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    A soldier might not show signs of "being homicidal" or "suicidal" - but still be considered unstable enough ot the point that *more* stress could cause too many problems. It's just a fact that going TO a theater of war CAUSES problems even with people who were squared away before they left.
    We have solders in the field still serving with PST and all other kinds of problems, and they did not go on a killing rampage.

    We are not magician's, no magic pill etc here. It is the military and **** happens. Welcome to the real world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    We're not talking about civilian issues, here - we're talking about military duties and the unique problems tied directly with it's nature. There's a huge difference.
    I was in the military, the only difference is you are under orders the majority of your military career. You still have your freedom to not be detained or accused of a crime without one being committed. We don't throw solders into Leavenworth for thinking about something wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    While it might not be such a concern to intervene with a civilian who had these types of issues it is important to do EXACTLY that for a deploying member of the military.
    Yea needle in a haystack, that always works.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 11-09-09 at 10:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  3. #253
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Soldiers are not taught to hate - my husband's been a soldier for almost 20 years, he doesn't hate anyone *shrug* So I don't know where you got that from.

    Right now they're actually teaching soldiers to understand the enemy, to see what separates an extremist from a traditional member of the Islamic faiths and so forth ... etc.

    They're taught cultural awareness (lots of it) and other things so they can understand and identify with the cultural and other differences before deployment.

    However - I understand your point and I agree to an extent. *If* he was constantly hearing people's prejudice or bigotry - that amount of "I hate people like you" from soldiers - with or without them knowing that he was Islamic (Muslim, etc) - would be an extreme emotional burden and likely to make anyone bend or break.

    If I was a psychologist and I had a lot of men telling me "I hate women, women are the bane of my existance and I want to kill them all" I'll probably crack rather quickly, regardless of my education and status as a psychologist.

    For Hasan I can see this being very applicable - it's not like you have a choice when you're assigned a Dr. If someone had a problem with Muslims, etc, and they were assigned to him then, evidently, their issues are going ot be discussed.

    But that might be beside the point - they haven't quite pinned down anything in particular. Maybe he had other issues that haven't even been rumored around, yet.
    Sometimes it's just foolish to try to understand the mind of the criminally insane.
    Well, maybe they aren't taught to hate any more as official military training policy. But it happens in many cases, as a consequence of war, I'm thinking of WWII and the way the Japanese Americans were hated.


    I was a social worker once for a senior housing project. Most of the senior were survivors of WWII and it was very mixed Japanese and European Americans. Here they lived side by side with the same people who were on opposite emotional sides during the war.

    So many years later the wounds of the hatred were still present with people who had lived in internment camps and had lost relatives in Hiroshima and people who had survived being POW's in Japanese camps or had relatives who had been killed at Pearl Harbor.

    The loyalty of Japanese Americans was questioned in the same way we question Major Hasan's loyalty after this tragedy.

    Just sayin'.......
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 11-09-09 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #254
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    I think what Wind may be trying to say....

    In war generally, it is common to foster an environment that is black and white with little gray. The enemy is bad, you are good. The enemy deserves to die, your allies don't deserve to die. The enemy is fighting for bad reasons, you are fighting the virtuous fight.

    This is not speaking to the U.S. Military, but to war, long standing combat, killing whatever in a broader sense.

    In those situations its hard to create a situation where you can allow shades of gray to come in. Its much more difficult to pull that trigger when you're thinking you're looking across at "Enemy X" who may have 2 kids back home, a wife that he truly loves, has a dog he's raised since was a stray puppy, and secretly as a child would harbor dreams of going to America and play for the yankee's than looking across at "Enemy X" who wants to destroy your way of life.

    Sometimes this black and white distinction can happen from dehumanizing the enemy to a point, ala the degrading attitudes towards asians in some of the more recent wars. Sometimes its just bold concrete stereotyping of anyone that's part of the enemy and now allowing in your mind to go beyond that.

    This generalized tactic of detaching yourself is present at times from something as simple as an MMA fight all the way to war. The best way to detach yourself, to keep from hestitating or feeling guilty or sympathetic, is to black and white paint the guy across from you as an enemy fully and completely and nothing else.

    I think what's wind is saying is that she thinks part of the way this "us vs them" thing is being imparted here is in part using muslim faith/arab ethnicity as part of the method.

    I don't agree with Wind's notion completely, but the general philosophy isn't unheard of.

  5. #255
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Psychologically, we teach soldiers to marginalize and hate the enemy. What if a Muslim is being taught to kill Muslims? Wouldn't that drive him nuts?
    Not necessarily. It depends on whether or not he identifies more with his religion or his national patriotism in circumstances of war. In many wars throughout history, Christians have killed Christians on a broad scale, just as Muslims have killed Muslims.

  6. #256
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    I was a social worker once for a senior housing project. Most of the senior were survivors of WWII and it was very mixed Japanese and European Americans. Here they lived side by side with the same people who were on opposite emotional sides during the war.

    So many years later the wounds of the hatred were still present with people who had lived in internment camps and had lost relatives in Hiroshima and people who had survived being POW's in Japanese camps or had relatives who had been killed at Pearl Harbor.

    The loyalty of Japanese Americans was questioned in the same way we question Major Hasan's loyalty after this tragedy.

    Just sayin'.......
    These weren't soldiers. You implied that SOLDIERS are taught to fear and hate.

  7. #257
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    Well, maybe they aren't taught to hate any more as official military training policy. But it happens in many cases, as a consequence of war, I'm thinking of WWII and the way the Japanese Americans were hated.


    I was a social worker once for a senior housing project. Most of the senior were survivors of WWII and it was very mixed Japanese and European Americans. Here they lived side by side with the same people who were on opposite emotional sides during the war.

    So many years later the wounds of the hatred were still present with people who had lived in internment camps and had lost relatives in Hiroshima and people who had survived being POW's in Japanese camps or had relatives who had been killed at Pearl Harbor.

    The loyalty of Japanese Americans was questioned in the same way we question Major Hasan's loyalty after this tragedy.

    Just sayin'.......
    That was then, this is now - things are different. We have evolved past the Jim Crow laws and other social injustices that were "law" during that time.

    At least out government now tries to dissuade fear mongering, racial hatred, prejudice and religious bigotry and they make efforts to protect those from such reactions without sequestering them into detention camps.
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  8. #258
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    At least out government now tries to dissuade fear mongering, racial hatred, prejudice and religious bigotry and they make efforts to protect those from such reactions without sequestering them into detention camps.
    We still teach young men and women to kill without thought. To kill on a superiors orders without question. Do you really think that does not have an effect on a young man or woman?

    We want you to respect the enemy, but kill him when needed. We were taught the enemy was the enemy and the idea is to kill him so he cannot kill you. Stupid politicians and bleeding heart civilians running the military when they have no ****ing clue.

    This is why our military today is so ****ed up today. We are not preparing them for war. We are preparing them for some kind of deranged social experiment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #259
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    We still teach young men and women to kill without thought. To kill on a superiors orders without question. Do you really think that does not have an effect on a young man or woman?

    We want you to respect the enemy, but kill him when needed. We were taught the enemy was the enemy and the idea is to kill him so he cannot kill you. Stupid politicians and bleeding heart civilians running the military when they have no ****ing clue.

    This is why our military today is so ****ed up today. We are not preparing them for war. We are preparing them for some kind of deranged social experiment.
    Taught to kill without thought?

    If we were cleared to kill without thought this whole Middle East issue would be resolved by now.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
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  10. #260
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    Re: Fort Hood - Terrorist Attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Taught to kill without thought?

    If we were cleared to kill without thought this whole Middle East issue would be resolved by now.
    I suppose you missed the second sentence huh? In fact you seem to have missed the entire point.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 11-09-09 at 05:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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