View Poll Results: Worst Presidents or Worstest?

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  • Millard Fillmore

    2 3.45%
  • Franklin Pierce

    1 1.72%
  • Benjamin Harrison

    0 0%
  • Jimmy Carter

    21 36.21%
  • James Buchanan

    3 5.17%
  • Ronald Reagan

    12 20.69%
  • Other (Describe in your post why)

    19 32.76%
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Thread: Worst President Ever?

  1. #61
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Wow, three posts defending the Confederacy in a row. That must be a new DP record.



    I suppose the 1979 Iranian takeover of the American embassy was justified because the embassy was "in their own territory"?

    Just because it is within the country's borders doesn't mean it belongs to the country. Otherwise, the Vatican and Monaco would not be independent states.
    It's not the same situation. South Carolina was a part of the Union, and Fort Sumter was a part of South Carolina. When they seceded from the Union, then shouldn't they have gotten all of the land of their state? You're basically arguing that secession is illegal.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #62
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Again, notice how libertarians and some conservatives rage against Lincoln for his clamping down on individual rights and pursuing the confederacy at any point and never acknowledging their existence.

    I completely disagree with that assessment of Lincoln.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #63
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    The only definitive thing I can say about Lincoln is that he was not genuinely against slavery. The ending of slavery is often always attributed to Lincoln, but he had very little to do with it. At most, he was saying the right things at the right moment.

    If we strip that attribution away from Lincoln, very little is left.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  4. #64
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    The South had no moral leeway to rebel. They'd had a relatively firm hand on national law and the judiciary for decades leading up to the Civil War (presidencies, Congress, and the Supreme Court) and the moment they started losing their grip they panicked and quit the Union. The republic only worked for them when they had the power, and it was an especially sore point for the North that the South only began questioning the right of political majorities in Congress to govern when they themselves no longer had the clear majority or the oval office. They also started exaggerating their own fears and whipping themselves into a frenzy, imagining Lincoln had powers he couldn't have and believing just because the national government would no longer be an instrument for the expansion and preservation of their way of life; they could have still had that way of life in their own states, so far as they were able to maintain it by their own means.

    The only definitive thing I can say about Lincoln is that he was not genuinely against slavery. The ending of slavery is often always attributed to Lincoln, but he had very little to do with it. At most, he was saying the right things at the right moment.

    If we strip that attribution away from Lincoln, very little is left.
    I disagree, although, Lincoln did not orchestrate the anti-slavery movement to the degree often imagined by the American people nowadays. He was, nonetheless, against slavery and played a key role in the anti-slavery political network as the Civil War waged on.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-06-09 at 02:51 AM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  5. #65
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I disagree, although, Lincoln did not orchestrate the anti-slavery movement to the degree often imagined by the American people nowadays. He was, nonetheless, against slavery and played a key role in the anti-slavery political network as the Civil War waged on.
    Actually, upon closer inspection, it would seem Lincoln would be an opportunist when it comes to the topic of slavery. Before the Civil War, he was not known for siding with the abolitionists, in fact I believe he was indifferent of it. It was only when anti-slavery sentiments became a useful tool for rallying against the South (during the Civil War), did Lincoln actually gave his support towards Abolition.

    Sure, you can say he played a key role, but no more than a single brick in an entire wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  6. #66
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Or rather (if I remember correctly), against slavery, and to some extent or another, interested in its abolition, but of less general importance to the strength of the union.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #67
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Woodrow Wilson.

    Passed the 16th, 17th, and 19th Amendments.

    DRAGGED the US into WWI - thereby setting the stage for WWII.

    Created the Federal Reserve, which caused the Great Depression.

    Enacted unconstitutional anti-sediction laws criminalizing freedom of expression (see "Eugene Debbs")

    League of Nations failure.

    Others I'm too lazy to list.
    Oh yeah - that's just aweful, he passed the 19th Amendment

    You mother would make you eat that.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  8. #68
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Oh yeah - that's just aweful, he passed the 19th Amendment

    You mother would make you eat that.
    Too late, Aunt. We covered this already, and he ate...crow.

    Boosh!
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #69
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Too late, Aunt. We covered this already, and he ate...crow.

    Boosh!
    LOL

    But it's not official until I sing.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  10. #70
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    Re: Worst President Ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Or rather (if I remember correctly), against slavery, and to some extent or another, interested in its abolition, but of less general importance to the strength of the union.
    I think you're correct. Lincoln was much more interested in keeping the Union intact, which of course meant that he had to appease the South by laying off of slavery. When the South seceded, he needed to side more with the Republicans to gain support, and therefore made the appropriate ideological change.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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