View Poll Results: Do you have the right to NOT exercise a right?

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  • Yes

    40 88.89%
  • No

    2 4.44%
  • Other

    3 6.67%
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Thread: The right to -not- exercise a right?

  1. #81
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    Cephus's Avatar
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So you disagree with the idea that there are "human rights". Right?
    I disagree that there's any such thing as inherent human rights. Certainly we can grant that within a certain society, a certain set of rights exist, but to say that those rights exist regardless of social boundaries is absurd.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #82
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I disagree that there's any such thing as inherent human rights. Certainly we can grant that within a certain society, a certain set of rights exist, but to say that those rights exist regardless of social boundaries is absurd.
    Gotcha. Thanks.

  3. #83
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Gotcha. Thanks.
    I'm just getting sick of people who sit around and scream "I HAVE RIGHTS! I HAVE RIGHTS!" And when I ask where they got them, they've got no better answer than "They came to me in a dream!" or "I made them up!" and then they expect me to respect those imaginary rights.

    It just doesn't work that way.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #84
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'm just getting sick of people who sit around and scream "I HAVE RIGHTS! I HAVE RIGHTS!" And when I ask where they got them, they've got no better answer than "They came to me in a dream!" or "I made them up!" and then they expect me to respect those imaginary rights.

    It just doesn't work that way.
    I personally subscribe to the natural rights theory -- I just wanted to see how far your position went. Most people that subscribe to the social contract theory will otherwise complain about human rghts violations in China, etc.

  5. #85
    Klattu Verata Nicto
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Captain Semantics strikes again! I love it.

    They won't say "I'm not free to discuss that with you" and if they do they are incorrect?
    It's a concept, not semantics. Freedom is the natural state of man, liberty is the socially acceptable limits to the exercise of freedom, it's the difference between Anarchism, Socialism, Communism, Republicanism, Democracy, Theocracy, Despostism.......etc, etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #86
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    Ikari's Avatar
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, it's an appeal to reality. You keep making these ridiculous claims that you cannot back up and when someone calls you on it, you'd rather insult the individual than admit you were wrong.
    It's not insult, it's truth. If you place the power of "rights" in the hands of some government force, you authorize some very dangerous practices. The base of this nation was built upon understanding and accepting the innate and inalienable nature of rights. If the government decides there is no "right to life" and sets up death troops, according to you we have no rightful place to resist or protest or dissent. But I say the right to life is innate to my very being. And in doing so, revolt against the death troops becomes am acceptable solution.

    It's retarded to place such floppy definitions to rights as the use and evocation of rights are essential to understanding the basis of Republic. The People are in charge, why? Cause the government is our property, we own it, it derives all power from us, and if it does not work the way we like we have the right to get rid of it. But the "those with the guns" arguments wouldn't say that. Tyrannical government is fine because the tyrannical government is in the right (being the institute which can define and enforce such things). We can't get rid of it, it's not our right. It may be that rights were discovered phenomenologically, but it doesn't take away from their absolute nature.

    Tell me, do you "believe" in the laws of thermodynamics? Can you show me where they are derived from?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  7. #87
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's appeal to authority and one of the most dangerous lines of thought out there. It enables terrible authoritative fascism. He with the guns defines the "rights". Except that they aren't rights, it appears as if Cephus does not believe in the existence of rights.
    "Rights" don't exist.

    As I've explain, rights are the limits on what the populace allows it's government to do.

    Also, far too many people presume to confuse an entitlement with a right, such as education and healthcare.

    In the real world, no one has a right to life, they're born with a death sentence. Their right to freedom of expression is nothing more than a curb on the power of government to shut them up.

  8. #88
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Granted by the society in which you live. That's why "rights" vary so dramatically from place to place. The idea that there are certain "rights" that exist across all borders and across all times is absurd.
    Then don't use the word "right", you're discussing priveleges.

    And we're actually on the same page.

    I was wondering if you were going to come up with some religious claptrap nonsense, such as the Declaration of Independence and it's "endowed by our Creator" babble.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 11-05-09 at 01:37 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I personally subscribe to the natural rights theory -- I just wanted to see how far your position went. Most people that subscribe to the social contract theory will otherwise complain about human rghts violations in China, etc.
    They complain because what China does violates their standards, nothing more. That's the first requirement for successful outrage, after all.

    In the movie "Big Jake", John Wayne was perfectly content to stand off and watch the cattlemen hang the sheep herder...until one of them kicked the shepherd's boy. Then he went to interfere.

    Standard human nature.

  10. #90
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    They complain because what China does violates their standards, nothing more. That's the first requirement for successful outrage, after all.
    Yeah, but they do it under the guise of 'human rights'.

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