View Poll Results: Do you have the right to NOT exercise a right?

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  • Yes

    40 88.89%
  • No

    2 4.44%
  • Other

    3 6.67%
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Thread: The right to -not- exercise a right?

  1. #121
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Obviously not since I'm an atheist. However, I am just using the terminology used by people who think we have "natural rights" and pointing out that its' all a fantasy. No matter what it says in the Bill of Rights, there isn't a single right we enjoy in this country that is inalienable or limitless. People need to deal with the reality of the situation, not the philosophical fantasy they wish were true.
    No, of course not.

    Note that the First Amendment doesn't grant a right to free speech. It removes the authority of congress to legislate speech controls.

  2. #122
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Our entire system of governent is predicated on the idea that rights, being inherent and innate to our being, pre-exist government, and that the government exists to protect those rights.

    If that not your basic argument, then our system of government won't work for you.
    That STILL doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how the government was set up, the fact is that rights are not inherent or innate. The government works just fine without that assumption and that assumption cannot be justified rationally.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #123
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Unfortunately, humans have the tendency to play the "might makes right" game and attempt to impose their standards on others.
    Yep... and in doing so, they undermine their own position.

  4. #124
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, of course not.

    Note that the First Amendment doesn't grant a right to free speech. It removes the authority of congress to legislate speech controls.
    That doesn't stop free speech from being controlled. You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, you cannot slander people, you cannot lie in court, you cannot give state secrets to foreign governments, there are all kinds of limitations to what you can and cannot say. Free speech is an ideal, it's not something that exists in practice.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #125
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The exercise of rights can be infringed upon by force.
    That's about as ridiculous as saying "I have a right to fly, it's just being infringed upon by gravity".
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #126
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I think I addressed this - the fact that the government doesn't recognize your rights can only mean the government is wrong.
    Or that your assertion of the rights is wrong. You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #127
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Or that your assertion of the rights is wrong. You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
    The statement is based on the acceptance of the previously mentioned premise.

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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    It's getting pretty hot and heavy in here guys...Are we still on topic? i know we're kinda off on a magnificent tangent.

  9. #129
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The statement is based on the acceptance of the previously mentioned premise.
    So you're using circular reasoning, that accepting a premise supports the end-result of said premise. That's a logical fallacy.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That STILL doesn't make it true. It doesn't matter how the government was set up, the fact is that rights are not inherent or innate.
    Under your theory. Others disagree.

    The government works just fine without that assumption...
    I'd argue that the governemt worked just fine until that assumption was questioned, at which point we saw the genesis of the majority of political conflicts we face today.

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