View Poll Results: Do you have the right to NOT exercise a right?

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  • Yes

    40 88.89%
  • No

    2 4.44%
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    3 6.67%
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Thread: The right to -not- exercise a right?

  1. #101
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Lots of stuff didn't exist in the early stages of development for the human race. It doesn't mean they don't exist or weren't discovered or weren't learned about later on. Rights are an abstract idea, realized when man was able to comprehend the abstract.

    There seems to be an overall rejection by those refusing to acknowledge rights in qualitative data. As such, I would ask again if you "believe" in the laws of thermodynamics and if you can show me their proofs.
    You have rights because they were given to you, not because they are naturally occurring somehow, nor were you born with an instruction manual and certificate verifying those rights. They can also easily be taken away if you don't deserve them...so...the problem here is that we need to define rights to each other causeI think we're just arguing around a central point here...

  2. #102
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Our entire system of governent is predicated on the idea that rights, being inherent and innate to our being, pre-exist government, and that the government exists to protect those rights.

    If that not your basic argument, then our system of government won't work for you.

  3. #103
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Our entire system of governent is predicated on the idea that rights, being inherent and innate to our being, pre-exist government, and that the government exists to protect those rights.

    If that not your basic argument, then our system of government won't work for you.
    As much as I agree with you, I can't help but notice that: that's how our government thinks, other governments don't agree with that. So...rights are granted by nature by virtue of the fact that our government believes so?

    I am confus

  4. #104
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You define everything off of probability and possible outcome. Because we can be killed, there's no right to life. Because someone can steal our stuff, there's no right to property. It's not an argument I find to be very valid. There's lots of probabilities, but that doesn't mean bases don't exist. I find the arbitrary placement of rights to be very dangerous. You in essence say I cannot be in the right for defending myself, that rather I am subject to the whims of the government on the matter. I don't accept that.
    Arbitrary placement of rights is exceptionally dangerous.

    That's how the world works.

    The Messiah is trying to arbitrarily impose an artrificial "right" to health care on our nation, and in the process He MUST infringe on our legally defined "right" to hold property by raising enough taxes to pay for health care.

    If these rights were absolute, this could not be done. You're taking concepts out of context and applying them inaccurately.

    You're also confusing your image of moral "rightness" with the existence of 'rights". Homonyms cause confusion, what can I say?

    In the eyes of Osama bin Laden, it was morally right to murder three thousand Americans. His only concern has been to escape capture.

  5. #105
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    The exercise of rights can be infringed upon by force.

    You and others keep making arguments that because something is possible means there are no base rights. We are mortal, there's no right to life. I can be murdered, true, it doesn't mean that I didn't have a right to life. It means that right was infringed upon. The questions I asked earlier were not outcome based. It was a question on whether or not just action is taken.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #106
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The exercise of rights can be infringed upon by force.

    You and others keep making arguments that because something is possible means there are no base rights. We are mortal, there's no right to life. I can be murdered, true, it doesn't mean that I didn't have a right to life. It means that right was infringed upon. The questions I asked earlier were not outcome based. It was a question on whether or not just action is taken.
    No, the argument I'm making is, since something is 'possible' you'd better be careful cause 'possible' are odds I'm scared of. The Action taken on the infringement of rights is another Man made thing. Prior to laws on Murder, Was there a right to life?

  7. #107
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    As much as I agree with you, I can't help but notice that: that's how our government thinks, other governments don't agree with that. So...rights are granted by nature by virtue of the fact that our government believes so?
    If you accept the stated premise, then the fact that the government doesn't recognize your rights can only mean the government is wrong.

  8. #108
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Arbitrary placement of rights is exceptionally dangerous.

    That's how the world works.

    The Messiah is trying to arbitrarily impose an artrificial "right" to health care on our nation, and in the process He MUST infringe on our legally defined "right" to hold property by raising enough taxes to pay for health care.

    If these rights were absolute, this could not be done. You're taking concepts out of context and applying them inaccurately.

    You're also confusing your image of moral "rightness" with the existence of 'rights". Homonyms cause confusion, what can I say?

    In the eyes of Osama bin Laden, it was morally right to murder three thousand Americans. His only concern has been to escape capture.
    No, certain degrees of moral rightness indicate a base right. You're confusing right and privilege and applying them inaccurately. You keep thinking that if something is a right, there is absolutely no way it can be violated. Like an absolute law of the universe or something. I have the right to be sucked into the center of a black hole for if I ever pass the event horizon, I could not escape; it's sorta along those lines. Force can be applied to infringe upon the exercise of rights. Having a right doesn't guarantee it's exercise or that you'll be free from outside forces. Those have to be fought for. Understanding that was the very basis of this country.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #109
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    No, the argument I'm making is, since something is 'possible' you'd better be careful cause 'possible' are odds I'm scared of. The Action taken on the infringement of rights is another Man made thing. Prior to laws on Murder, Was there a right to life?
    Of course there was right to life. The creation of laws against murder were made in acknowledgment of that right. The murder laws did not create that right.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #110
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    Re: The right to -not- exercise a right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If you accept the stated premise, then the fact that the government doesn't recognize your rights can only mean the government is wrong.
    They recognize the rights they gave me, I appreciate that. But what about rights I think I should have? (hypothetically lol, I don't actually think I'm entitled to more rights atm) Rights other entities think I should have? Rights other entities don't think I should have?

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