View Poll Results: Does understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

  1. #21
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    1) You were never in your entire time here was called a terrorist.
    That is, unless you see terrorist supporter and outright terrorist at the same light.

    2) You were called a terrorist supporter for a whole different wording, and "understanding your enemy" is not even one of the reasons for this label, so your post here is pretty much irrelevant to the reason of your labeling.
    No A, I, and several other members of the forum, have been called terrorists, extremists, or some other similiar term found in a theasarus by you.

    In fact, just yesterday, you called me a 'Hamas Supporter' after making a clear case that the group was a terrorist group. How many similiar insults have been leveled against creation for example?

    So here is your chance. Pony up, and prove that I am a Hamas supporter. Same challenge as G-man got. Look at the initial post in this thread and make your case, or shove it.

    Otherwise same question, how do posters discuss Hamas and other ME factions without being denounced as a terrorist by the likes of you and a small coterie of other posters?

    Everytime a poster discusses what Hamas or Hezbollah is doing and how best counter it with an eye on pointing out that Western Nations are not doing it, the response is inevitably the same, "terrorist."

    If you cannot defend your statements now, when called directly to task in direct response to your comments, then you owe me, and a good number of other posters, an apology.

    Pony up and describe how the initial post in this thread equates to supporting, indeed advancing, Hamas's interests. Step up with an explanantion.

  2. #22
    Banned gree0232's Avatar
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Easy -- by not actually advocating them, by not promoting them, and especially, by not mocking those who oppose them.




    It doesn't, and nobody has ever said it was




    A good start might be to stop referring to their intentional murder of Jews as "doing what needs to be done" , while mocking those who oppose such barbarity. Perhaps this has never been explained to you, but most people do not like murder. Your mocking them for not supporting murder most certainy does give every indication of your supporting such action, since otherwise you would be joining them in denunciation. Reacting against intentional murder is a normal, human reaction, and so your saying that Murder is "doing what needs to be done" while acting as if the normal, human reaction were something to be mocked is hardly the stuff of "understanding" terrorism -- it is the stuff of promoting, supporting, and justifying it.
    Really, so what exactly in the initial post is advocating Hamas?

    In war, you do what needs to be done. Not sure how that is advocating for Hamas or any other terrorist group either? That little truth applies to combatants in any type of war. If you disagree so be it, but that statement clearly is not support for terrorists is it?

    I watched plenty of people die in Iraq. Lots. I walked into rape and torture rooms with smell of sweat and blood still hanging in the air. Our enemy in Iraq was 'terrorist' and 'insurgent', and we defeated them not by saying, "you are murderers," but by analyizing what they were doing, finding vulnerabilities, and then violently exploiting them. Still don't see how saying people die in war supports terrorism or is indicative of being a terrorist.

    The intent of that comment, having put it into practice in combat, is to acknowledge that are enemies are fighting 'unfairly', so what?, and still having the DUTY to fight them despite what they are doing. That is the duty of soldier in battle isn't it? To defeat the enemy, not whine about what he is doing. Do you seriously think that just because you do not agree with what your enemy is doing, find it horrific in fact, that he will stop doing it?

    For example, I certainly do not support rape rooms, and when we found them, we went about finding the guys who set it up and killed or captured them. The people certainly knew what was going on, and when the actual bad guys are dragged out in restraints or body bags they know what the hell is going on. You tell me which is more effective, denouncing those who set up rape rooms, or going after them and killing them?

    Tell me how does thumping your chest and saying, "Murder is wrong!" stop terrorists? Do you think that they are going to say, "What? Murder is wrong! Bin Laden, you lied to me!!" They are using tactics deliberately to generate fear for political purposes. So should we perhaps figure out what they are doing, why they are doing it, what legitimate grievances they have tapped into for exploitation and recruiting purposes, with an eyes to developing a counter-narrative and finding weaknesses and vulnerabilities to explot violently?

    And how do you define the difference between a terrorist and an insurgent? How were we able to to exploit the differences in the Anbar insurency to create the Sons of Iraq? How were we able to split the Madhi Army from the JAM special groups and facilitate its transformation into a charity group? How is it that hostile villages in Malaysia became recruiting grounds for the Home Guard? Why are we reaching out to moderate factions of the Taliban? Why is political reconcilliation a key axiom of COIN? If GEN Petreus tells us to reduce the number of enemy combatants to the smallest number of unreconcillables possible, those that we will then kill or capture, what exactly does he mean?

    Now please, answer the simple question, how do you discuss what Hamas, or indeed any of these terrorist or insurgent groups are doing without being denounced for, "promoting, supporting, and justifying it," as you have just done once again.

    Do you honestly think that you are engaged in a debate with actual terrorists on this forum? Seriously?

    You are very good at making emotive accussations, but now it is time to pony up. Show how the initial post supports terrorism, go through it and explain how that is support for Hamas.
    Last edited by gree0232; 11-04-09 at 12:55 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Now please, answer the simple question, how do you discuss what Hamas, or indeed any of these terrorist or insurgent groups are doing without being denounced for, "promoting, supporting, and justifying it,"

    .
    I discuss Hamas all the time and have never received such feedback.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  4. #24
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I discuss Hamas all the time and have never received such feedback.
    You give it Gardner, all the time. You just did it again it your previous post.

    "it is the stuff of promoting, supporting, and justifying it."

    I, and other posters, have been called a terrorists or a terrorist sympathizer by you on dozens of occassions while trying to discuss what Hamas was doing, why they are doing it, and how to get in front it.

    Thus far, the poll is pretty clear. Talking about your enemy with a clear grasp of capabilities, intentions, tactics, and ideology, particular in reference to the polices that should be enacted against these things, is not support for terrorism.

    You disagree, make your case.
    Last edited by gree0232; 11-04-09 at 01:09 AM.

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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You give it Gardner, all the time. You just did it again it your previous post.

    "it is the stuff of promoting, supporting, and justifying it."

    I, and other posters, have been called a terrorists or a terrorist sympathizer by you on dozens of occassions while trying to discuss what Hamas was doing, why they are doing it, and how to get in front it.

    Thus far, the poll is pretty clear. Talking about your enemy with a clear grasp of capabilities, intentions, tactics, and ideology, particular in reference to the polices that should be enacted against these things, is not support for terrorism.

    You disagree, make your case.
    People voted for your straw man. You are only erecting more here.


    I already detailed that which reveals more than this "understanding" of yours.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    I, and other posters, have been called a terrorists or a terrorist sympathizer by you on dozens of occassions while trying to discuss what Hamas was doing, why they are doing it, and how to get in front it.
    Link the thread in where this occured. I need to see it to believe it.

    Thus far, the poll is pretty clear. Talking about your enemy with a clear grasp of capabilities, intentions, tactics, and ideology, particular in reference to the polices that should be enacted against these things, is not support for terrorism.
    That is so common sense and amateurish; there has to be more to it.

  7. #27
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Not true, at least not if we buy into the continium of conflict found in Clausewitz (I happen to). Very brutal COIN efforts may appear to eliminate an insurgency, but the effect is only temporary. A generation or so later, the insurgency re-appears and is ever more brutal and violent.

    Saddam's attacks on the Southern Shia did restor order for a time, but, as US forces enetering in Najaf and Karbala discovered, there were certainly Shia resistance forces in the area.

    How mant times did Britain try and solve its Irish problem through brutality? And in the end the Isle was divided and the last counter-insurgency seems to have effectively put the issue to rest on a large scale (still some minor criminal groups hiding behind the IRA mantel).

    we can also look at German actions during WWII in the Balkans and other areas, and these areas were hardly pacified even in the face of near total German brutality.

    The Balkans themselves are a case study in how brutality can tear an area assunder. the tangled hostory of one groups hero being every other groups villian points to the problems of brutality as policy.

    Brutality, particularly in the modern world, can have dramatic effects. The Kosovo ethnic cleansing provoked a massive NATO military intervention.

    Brutality in Burma may have capped the immediate problem, but would you be willing to bet that it is the last unrest generated by the inequalities and injstices in that system?

    In the end, brutality rarely works as a comprehensive solution.
    If you can't present your case more concisely then I'm not going to bother debating you.

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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    I voted the obvious choice in the poll, but I decided to skip the introductory post. Let's keep it to a couple of short paragraphs next time, ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A case could be made for any country or group of people to be considered a terrorist. As far as I'm concerned the term "terrorist" is purely subjective.
    This caught my eye. I disagree with this. However, [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism]Terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] claims that there is no standard definition, including state actors. To me, a terrorist is someone who practices terrorism, which is the use of uncoventional violence against a non-combatant population to coerce a political change. It is a warfare tactic. It is not subjective.

    As such, I don't think states can be terrorists, who are individuals.

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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

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    Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?Cease with attacking other posters or thread bans and infractions will occur. Stick to the topic at hand and not each other.
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    Re: Deos understanding your enemy make you a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    This caught my eye. I disagree with this. However, Terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia claims that there is no standard definition, including state actors. To me, a terrorist is someone who practices terrorism, which is the use of uncoventional violence against a non-combatant population to coerce a political change. It is a warfare tactic. It is not subjective.

    As such, I don't think states can be terrorists, who are individuals.
    Lets examine this a bit.

    In the Iraq or Afghanistan war those that are deemed to be terrorists have killed innocent civilians..and not just with suicide bombs by also by guns. BUT US forces have also killed innocent civilians. Now granted the US forces more than likely did not mean to kill those innocent civilians. But does that matter to the relatives of those killed? Does it matter to the ones that watched the killing? How would they view such an act? Wouldn't they consider it a terrorist act by the US?
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