Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
Those of you who answered "No", what would say is the problem with being a Jingoist?
Hmm. I wouldn't say that not being a jingoist is the same as being opposed to jingoism. A person can simply not feel that swell of pride in their chest when encountering the symbols of their nation or upon recalling their nation's achievements, especially including military achievements. And, really... I'd say that quite a few of the people who answered "no" did so falsely, given the explanations offered for their votes.

Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
really? i have never understood why people believe it's acceptable to invade a country because they have the capacity for democracy.
I believe it's acceptable to invade a country because they have something we want. I don't understand the impulse to spread democracy in foreign countries, but if spreading democracy is both desirable and noble, then how much more acceptable must invasion in the name of democracy be than invasion in the name of conquest?

Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
And incidentally, there needs to obviously be a reasonable distinction drawn between beneficial domestic conditions and the effects of a country's political regime on international conditions...
For what purpose? The duty of a government is to its own citizens. A government that provides beneficial domestic conditions at the expense of destabilizing the rest of the world is doing its job. One could even argue the virtues of destabilizing foreign powers for its own sake as it gives the successful government more leverage in international relations and contributes to the desire to immigrate, allowing the successful country to benefit from "brain drain."

Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Moreover, there are countries that are objectively better than the U.S. in terms of HDI categories, and even in terms of the average freedoms that their citizens possess. Being born in the U.S. doesn't restrict me from saying that.
This is all true. Of course, I'd argue that the proper response to these facts is not to abandon one's pride in the United States, but to exercise one's patriotic duty to attempt to rectify the situation. (The fact that doing so will lead people to criticize you as "unamerican" and "unpatriotic" is bitterly ironic, but that's the price we pay for attempting to improve the lives of morons instead of merely fleecing them on a regular basis.) And, of course, there is the matter that not all objective measures of "freedom" and "human development" are necessarily objectively better in terms of the long-term prosperity and growth of nations.