View Poll Results: Are you a jingoist?

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  • Yes - I have excessive bias in judging my country as superior to others.

    3 11.11%
  • No

    24 88.89%
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Thread: Are you a jingoist?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, so it has to be in the National Defense? I believe this is what this book will say as well. Like I said, I think "in the National interest" is sufficient, but I am prepared to change my mind. It looks like a great book.

    Let me add that there is a history of intervention by the US "in the national interest", without a threat, or the threat was a threat to economic interests abroad and not a security threat. Some of them are:
    - Mexico
    - Phillipines
    - Korea
    - Vietnam
    - Many countries in Latin America
    - Long War in the west

    Collectively known as the Small Wars.
    i think we walk a fine line when we decide to invade a relatively stable sovereign country. i don't believe all action has to be in the national defense, and i do believe we should be pragmatic.

    for example, i had no issue with the first gulf war.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #32
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    I don't think it's jingoistic to express that my country is simply better than many others.

  3. #33
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i think we walk a fine line when we decide to invade a relatively stable sovereign country. i don't believe all action has to be in the national defense, and i do believe we should be pragmatic.

    for example, i had no issue with the first gulf war.
    What is your justification for the first gulf war?

  4. #34
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't think it's jingoistic to express that my country is simply better than many others.
    no it's not. here is his definition:

    "extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy".

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  5. #35
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    if we decided to do something about sudan, we should do it all the way. i don't know enough about their culture to advocate that, however.
    Sudan is a tough one. The problems in Darfur are complex, multi-ethnic and tribal. South Sudan is made up of more traditional African culture, while the north is primarily Islamic and Arab. The government is aiding the fighters killing Africans in Darfur and are probably the biggest problem; they are not only failing to do anything, but also making it worse. Sudan's President is under international indictment and can only travel to certain countries or he will be arrested. Unfortunately, all the other African thug leaders have come to his defense; Qaddafi, most notably.

  6. #36
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    liblady, I think you may have missed my question in post #33.

  7. #37
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I am not a jingoist, no, but I might point out that neither am I a self-loathing reactionary.

    If the forums I have visited are any indication, the "America, love it or leave it crowd", is matched pretty closely by the "America is the source of all the world's ills" set.

    Neither get my respect.
    An attempt to paint some form of disingenuous equivalence indicates bias on the part of the former option. The first crowd you speak of are pure jingoists in the sense of each being "[o]ne who advocates an aggressive nationalism; one who vociferously supports a nation's military aims," as put by Wiktionary. Their belligerent irrationality is intended to silence rational analysis. The second crowd focuses attention on political regimes rather than a national citizenry...and it's quite valid to contend that U.S. political regimes have caused a substantial amount of international damage, typically without the knowledge and mandate of the electorate or general population.

  8. #38
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    What is your justification for the first gulf war?
    Saddam threatened to destabilize the global oil supplies by invading and he did. Remember when Saddam set fire to oil fields as he left Kuwait? Yeah. That wasn't cheap.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #39
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Saddam threatened to destabilize the global oil supplies by invading and he did. Remember when Saddam set fire to oil fields as he left Kuwait? Yeah. That wasn't cheap.
    So we can invade a country that is either a physical threat or an economic threat and that is in the national defense?

  10. #40
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    Re: Are you a jingoist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't think it's jingoistic to express that my country is simply better than many others.
    And incidentally, there needs to obviously be a reasonable distinction drawn between beneficial domestic conditions and the effects of a country's political regime on international conditions, since the U.S. has a relatively high quality of internal domestic conditions, but has been governed by political regimes that have exported calamity abroad, and some disingenuously attempt to refer to the beneficial domestic conditions as a justification for the perpetuated exportation of the calamitous international conditions.

    But the fact that we have universal suffrage or something like that can't alter the reality that .S. ruling administrations have traditionally been and continue to be among the foremost of political regimes directly or indirectly responsible for anti-democratic coups and support of dictatorial political conditions throughout the world. This pattern has been particularly stark in Latin America, with the CIA-backed removals of democratically elected leftists Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala and Salvador Allende in Chile (who was to be replaced by the brutal military dictator Augusto Pinochet), and support of the Contras and the Somoza family of Nicaragua, Manuel Noriega of Panama, Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, the Duvalier father and son pair of Haiti, Fulgencio Batista of Cuba, etc.

    Moreover, there are countries that are objectively better than the U.S. in terms of HDI categories, and even in terms of the average freedoms that their citizens possess. Being born in the U.S. doesn't restrict me from saying that.

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