View Poll Results: Did you vote in Nov 2009 US elections?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Voted absentee ballot

    4 13.33%
  • Voted early voting

    1 3.33%
  • Voted on election day at the polls

    8 26.67%
  • Skipped b/c lack of knowledge of candidates/issues

    4 13.33%
  • Skipped b/c I didn't care

    6 20.00%
  • Meant to vote and missed it

    1 3.33%
  • I'm not eligible to vote in US elections

    6 20.00%
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Thread: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

  1. #81
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why is it not the point? What's the point in voting if your vote isn't going to matter most of the time?

    If you're interested, the likelihood that you'll cast the deciding vote can be calculated using this formula:

    P(x) = n! / [x! * (n-x)!] * p^x * (1-p)^(n-x)
    where:
    n = number of other voters
    x = number of other voters who vote for Smith...in this case 1/2 of n
    p = probability of a random voter voting for Smith




    You advocate voting because you think it would be good if everyone voted...and you criticize the idea of NOT voting because you think it would be bad if no one voted. This relies on the fallacy that if you behave in a certain way, everyone else will follow suit.
    You are of course are relying upon a fallacy. Namely that I am saying that if you behave in a certain way, everyone else will follow suit. Your attempt to frame my stance as that statement may be appealing to the direction you would prefer this conversation flow, but is in no way my point or reflective of my thoughts on this matter. And this is hardly the first time I have entered into a debate or conversation about the topic. In fact the "your vote is meaningless" dirge is so common place as to be moribund. I state plainly that IMO it is not good for the country that people not vote and not generally ascribe to the idea their vote and their opinion does not matter. I can understand why this would appeal to a politician or say a dictator? But what possible pay off can you receive from acting so obtuse? I admit I can't fathom it.

    You just blithely declared that elections are important but voting is a waste of time. As if the importance of the former was not inexorably linked to the later. You have thus far been completely unwilling to even engage in the simple suggestion that this issue might be about deeper issues and have more societal importance and impact than your buffalo stance. Oh let me guess, what next? What does "good" for a democracy mean? What does "good" mean? You started by trying to pigeon hole me as an emotionally overwrought ad hom ATTACKER and IMO it has been just about as dense as that ever since.

    How about this Chief Smoke? Instead of just stating over and over that my and all votes are a waste of time, you demonstrate how our votes affects NOTHING and are counted for NOTHING, at both the local level and national level and how *all* that matters is your oft repeated mantra that voting is a waste of time. Yip that is a pretty broad stance you have taken up, mighty dense turd to polish too. Good luck.

  2. #82
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    You are of course are relying upon a fallacy. Namely that I am saying that if you behave in a certain way, everyone else will follow suit.
    If you want to know why I think you are relying on that fallacy, look no further than statements like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    I state plainly that IMO it is not good for the country that people not vote and not generally ascribe to the idea their vote and their opinion does not matter.
    OK. Let's assume for a minute that it's true that it's not good for the country if PEOPLE don't vote. Why is it not good for the country if you or I personally don't vote? And more to the point, how does my vote benefit me?

    And there's another fallacy: You conflated "Their vote does not matter" with "Their opinion does not matter." I haven't seen anyone on this thread arguing the latter point. There are plenty of ways to influence policy; voting is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    I can understand why this would appeal to a politician or say a dictator? But what possible pay off can you receive from acting so obtuse? I admit I can't fathom it.
    If we again ignore the psychological benefits of voting and focus solely on the political benefits: The payoff is saving some of one's time by not voting...and you won't alter the outcome of the election anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    You just blithely declared that elections are important but voting is a waste of time. As if the importance of the former was not inexorably linked to the later.
    It isn't. As long as some people still vote, any individual's vote still won't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    How about this Chief Smoke? Instead of just stating over and over that my and all votes are a waste of time, you demonstrate how our votes affects NOTHING and are counted for NOTHING,
    I already did that by providing you with the statistical formula. Even when there are only 1,000 other voters (e.g. a small town's election), the probability that your vote will determine the outcome is TINY. And when there are millions of other voters (e.g. a state or presidential election), the probability that your vote will determine the outcome is virtually nil.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-03-09 at 11:03 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
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  3. #83
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you want to know why I think you are relying on that fallacy, look no further than statements like this:



    OK. Let's assume for a minute that it's true that it's not good for the country if PEOPLE don't vote. Why is it not good for the country if you or I personally don't vote? And more to the point, how does my vote benefit me?

    And there's another fallacy: You conflated "Their vote does not matter" with "Their opinion does not matter." I haven't seen anyone on this thread arguing the latter point. There are plenty of ways to influence policy; voting is not one of them.



    If we again ignore the psychological benefits of voting and focus solely on the political benefits: The payoff is saving some of one's time by not voting...and you won't alter the outcome of the election anyway.



    It isn't. As long as some people still vote, any individual's vote still won't matter.



    I already did that by providing you with the statistical formula. Even when there are only 1,000 other voters (e.g. a small town's election), the probability that your vote will determine the outcome is TINY. And when there are millions of other voters (e.g. a state or presidential election), the probability that your vote will determine the outcome is virtually nil.
    You can be honest, you have not the slightest intention of admitting that anything but your mantra exist. Do ya?

  4. #84
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    You can be honest, you have not the slightest intention of admitting that anything but your mantra exist. Do ya?
    Not unless you can show that it's incorrect, no...
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Not unless you can show that it's incorrect, no...
    Thanks for admitting the obvious. By now your idea of "incorrect" is so exclusive as to be laughable, but you don't enjoy arguing for the sake of it now do you? I advise a better brand of turd rub next time.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 11-03-09 at 11:33 PM.

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