View Poll Results: Did you vote in Nov 2009 US elections?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Voted absentee ballot

    4 13.33%
  • Voted early voting

    1 3.33%
  • Voted on election day at the polls

    8 26.67%
  • Skipped b/c lack of knowledge of candidates/issues

    4 13.33%
  • Skipped b/c I didn't care

    6 20.00%
  • Meant to vote and missed it

    1 3.33%
  • I'm not eligible to vote in US elections

    6 20.00%
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Thread: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

  1. #41
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So like I said, it sounds like you place a high value on the act of voting, which makes it rational for you. You should understand that that doesn't apply to everyone.



    On the internet or in any basic political theory class.
    Most people in a democracy place a "high value" on voting. Big gold star to you on deducing that sir. Now if you can explain how your position is rational and mine irrational, minus the cerebral hookus pokus, I'm game. Seriously speaking, your attempt to state that voting is a waste of time is not persuading me that such is the case and that I have no point. Here on the internet or in the real world.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 11-03-09 at 03:49 AM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No. You haven't said anything new. After I noted that your vote had absolutely no influence one way or the other, you had no response to this.
    Actually I had a response to it, it was posted in English and you actually bothered to post a repsonce to it. But tell me, if your stance somehow in your mind is *something new* and if so, do tell............

  3. #43
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    Most people in a democracy place a "high value" on voting. Big gold star to you on deducing that sir.
    Which makes voting rational for them. However, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this isn't because voting is intrinsically valuable, but is because individuals place their own value on it.

    Now if you can explain how your position is rational and mine irrational, minus the cerebral hookus pokus, I'm game. Seriously speaking, your attempt to state that voting is a waste of time is not persuading me that such is the case and that I have no point. Here on the internet or in the real world.
    Again, if you think that I'm saying that voting is a waste of time, you're missing my point. The logic of my position is pretty simple.

    (Value to you of your preferred candidate winning) * (probability of your vote being the one vote to cause your candidate to win) + (value you place on the act of voting) + (X) = (Cost of voting)

    Because the probability of your vote being the one vote to cause your candidate to win is effectively zero, the equation can be simplified as:

    (Value you place on the act of voting) + (X) = (Cost of voting)

    If X is negative after filling in the other variables, then voting is rational for you. That is not the case for everyone.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #45
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Which makes voting rational for them. However, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this isn't because voting is intrinsically valuable, but is because individuals place their own value on it.



    Again, if you think that I'm saying that voting is a waste of time, you're missing my point. The logic of my position is pretty simple.

    (Value to you of your preferred candidate winning) * (probability of your vote being the one vote to cause your candidate to win) + (value you place on the act of voting) + (X) = (Cost of voting)

    Because the probability of your vote being the one vote to cause your candidate to win is effectively zero, the equation can be simplified as:

    (Value you place on the act of voting) + (X) = (Cost of voting)

    If X is negative after filling in the other variables, then voting is rational for you. That is not the case for everyone.
    Let us just cut to brass tacks eh? I have a vote, it is counted. Regardless the argument given it is counted, those who do not are not counted. Insert rationalized statements about rationalized statements ad ifinitum and those who don't vote are still not counted. Congrats all the way around for the reasons you are not counted and to those of you who are counted who think being counted ain't all that. Who cares if you did not vote? You count even less than those you mock for counting do. At least *ONE* who mocks the value of the count still participates in it! His voice actaully counts, whereas YOURS does not, in any tangible way, except of course.....the internet.

  6. #46
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    Let us just cut to brass tacks eh? I have a vote, it is counted. Regardless the argument given it is counted, those who do not are not counted. Insert rationalized statements about rationalized statements ad ifinitum and those who don't vote are still not counted. Congrats all the way around for the reasons you are not counted and to those of you who are counted who think being counted ain't all that. Who cares if you did not vote?
    I'm not saying that your vote isn't counted, I'm saying that it's meaningless in terms of the outcome of the election. This is not my opinion, this is a mathematical fact. The only way your vote is valuable is if you place a personal value on the act of voting.

    You count even less than those you mock for counting do. At least *ONE* who mocks the value of the count still participates in it!
    For the third time, I vote in every single election. I don't know why you keep on accusing me of not voting.

    His voice actaully counts, whereas YOURS does not, in any tangible way, except of course.....the internet.
    If you think that voting is the most effective way to make your voice heard, you're sorely mistaken. In terms of actual impact on society/policy, it's easily the least effective method that I can think of.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    Let us just cut to brass tacks eh? I have a vote, it is counted. Regardless the argument given it is counted, those who do not are not counted.
    How many elections has your vote changed the outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    Who cares if you did not vote? You count even less than those you mock for counting do.
    Not very much less. In fact, such a negligible amount that for all intents and purposes your vote counts the same as someone who didn't cast a vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin
    At least *ONE* who mocks the value of the count still participates in it! His voice actaully counts, whereas YOURS does not, in any tangible way, except of course.....the internet.
    I would argue that if one's sole goal is to influence public policy (i.e. ignoring the warm and fuzzy feeling from voting), posting on DebatePolitics is a much better use of one's time than voting.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm not saying that your vote isn't counted, I'm saying that it's meaningless in terms of the outcome of the election. This is not my opinion, this is a mathematical fact. The only way your vote is valuable is if you place a personal value on the act of voting.
    Saying my vote is meaningless is just plain dumb and owing to dogma IMO. I voted in the 2009 election and on many issues both local and national. You do know there was more on the docket in 2009 issue wise and chronologically than the POTUS race? You will of course demonstrate for my admittedly ignorant self, all that you claim won't you? As I have said, I am game.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    For the third time, I vote in every single election. I don't know why you keep on accusing me of not voting.
    I was not speaking to you there and thought the forum norms would have made this obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you think that voting is the most effective way to make your voice heard, you're sorely mistaken. In terms of actual impact on society/policy, it's easily the least effective method that I can think of.
    Never said any of the above, just responding to your arguments with my comments.

  9. #49
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    Saying my vote is meaningless is just plain dumb and owing to dogma IMO. I voted in the 2009 election and on many issues both local and national. You do know there was more on the docket in 2009 issue wise and chronologically than the POTUS race? You will of course demonstrate for my admittedly ignorant self, all that you claim won't you? As I have said, I am game.
    When the results come in tomorrow night, be sure to keep track of how many of those elections were decided by your vote.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Did you vote in Nov 2009 elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    How many elections has your vote changed the outcome?
    Utterly irrelevant, unless you care to perform an ad hoc soliloquy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Not very much less. In fact, such a negligible amount that for all intents and purposes your vote counts the same as someone who didn't cast a vote.
    So yet, somehow and despite your best intentions, somehow above nothing? Well then I certainly see the pay off in the passionate arguments put forth so far. Chuckle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I would argue that if one's sole goal is to influence public policy (i.e. ignoring the warm and fuzzy feeling from voting), posting on DebatePolitics is a much better use of one's time than voting.
    Of course you would. Down is up and up is down. I know.

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