View Poll Results: Is "Islamic Terrorism" Dependent on or Independent of U.S. Foreign Policy?

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  • Dependent. Such terrorism would likely not exist if U.S. foreign policy were different.

    25 49.02%
  • Independent. Islamic terrorism would exist at current levels regardless.

    26 50.98%
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Thread: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

  1. #81
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Haganah formed the year before that. More importantly, of course, do attempt to make some remark relevant to the thread. Rebuttal of my quoted post would be dashing.
    Indeed, Haganah was formed in 1920, I don't see what this had to do with the argument.

    As I said, the first terrorist attack in the land has occurred in 1921, by Palestinian-Arab terrorists.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Where did Agnapostate run off to? I am noticing he has a tendency to drop conversations in the middle. Somewhat annoying.

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Not any more than your mysterious disappearance elsewhere, though you can ask Australianlibertarian how valid that comment is of me. It's just that Ferris hasn't yet learned not to clutter threads with mounds of garbage, so this time, he has to be educated.

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Not any more than your mysterious disappearance elsewhere, though you can ask Australianlibertarian how valid that comment is of me. It's just that Ferris hasn't yet learned not to clutter threads with mounds of garbage, so this time, he has to be educated.
    Have I? Didn't mean to. It is no reason to ignore my post, since you are obviously still monitoring this thread.

    Also, it seems Ferris challenged your assertion with some facts. Care to refute them or do we now know to ignore your use of Mossadeq, Arbenz, and Allende as evidence of US anti-democratic removal?

    I have asked you twice about "where do you feel nationality fits in[to moral agency]?"

    I have also asked you 2 or 3 times how Anarchism runs an economy without money as an interchange medium.

    But you just ignore me
    Last edited by reefedjib; 11-03-09 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #85
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    I don't like the all or none dichotomy presented by the poll. I believe that the terrorism would exist, but that it might not be directed in the same ways and would not be as bad if our foreign policy had been different.

    I'm not really talking about with regards to Israel, either.

    I'm talking about things like Operation Ajax and other interventionism in the ME.

    I think that the terrorism would still exist in some form to some degree, but the things that we (and others) did that increased the foothold of extremism in hearts of the people within the region has exacerbated that extremism and given it more power than it otherwise may have achieved without those interventions.

    In other words, I believe it to be a variable, but not the only variable.

  6. #86
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    I'm stuck between yes and no. Part of the reason for extremist Islam is due to Dutch Disease. Without the need for taxation, there is no need for representation, thereby no need for democracy and very little emphasis on education. If Middle Eastern regimes had managed Dutch Disease well to produce an educated, moderate society that promoted representation in government I seriously doubt that what we did in the Middle East would have resulted in what we see today. Note, compare Turkey's relationship with Israel over the past 40 years with Iran's.

    That said, it is absolutely ludicrous to expect people to not lash out at you for screwing up their proverbial house.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Not any more than your mysterious disappearance elsewhere, though you can ask Australianlibertarian how valid that comment is of me. It's just that Ferris hasn't yet learned not to clutter threads with mounds of garbage, so this time, he has to be educated.
    And by garbage you mean primary source material, eyewitness testimony, and facts. Go read some more genocide denial by Chomsky sport, then talk to me about getting educated.

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    And by garbage you mean primary source material, eyewitness testimony, and facts. Go read some more genocide denial by Chomsky sport, then talk to me about getting educated.
    Your comment on that, as previously mentioned, is a rightist talking point that you've learned to repeat without knowing anything about. Aside from the fallacious claim that his views on a topic are sufficient to invalidate every single comment he's ever made, and aside from the fact that I've not even mentioned him as a source for my own claims in this thread, Noam Chomsky opposed Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, but merely proposed that the number of deaths that they allegedly caused were overstated, since the U.S.-sponsored intervention in Cambodia in the early 1970's had wide-ranging repercussions that likely caused additional deaths. Your claim is repetition of a disingenuous myth.

    Since you contributed almost nothing to the thread, refused to answer my main points, made comical claims about the Barbary pirates (), and cluttered the thread by copying and pasting off-topic, disingenuous garbage, run along now.

  9. #89
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Well, let me put it this way...

    When was the last time Islamic terrorists threatened to blow up anything in Switzerland?

    Of course a country's foreign policy matters greatly.
    In Neutral Switzerland, A Rising Radicalism
    Islamic Extremists Newly Seen as Threat




    "the Swiss Federal Police reversed previous assessments that the domestic risk of terrorism was nearly nonexistent. The report concluded that Switzerland had become "a jihadi field of operation" and predicted that terrorist attacks were "an increasing possibility."

    "It would be dishonest to say that these groups are ready to act in Europe but that Switzerland is an island and that these groups could not be active in Switzerland, too," Jean-Luc Vez, director of the federal police, said in an interview here in the Swiss capital. "It is very, very important for us to say this to the Swiss politicians and the Swiss people."

    The changes in Switzerland mirror those in other smaller European nations that, until recently, didn't see themselves as likely targets for Islamic terrorists."

    In Sweden, another country with a long history of neutrality, prosecutors last month convened a top-secret closed trial of three terrorism suspects in the southern city of Malmo. Authorities have not identified the suspects or disclosed any evidence. But Swedish media have reported that the arrests were made at the request of British counterterrorism investigators.

    "In Denmark, counterterrorism authorities say they remain on high alert after a Danish newspaper printed cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that spurred boycotts, death threats and violent protests in Islamic countries.

    And in the Netherlands, the Dutch government has classified the risk of a terrorist attack as "substantial," a threat level proportionally higher than in the United States, where homeland security officials judge the risk as "elevated." The Dutch government established its threat-ranking system in November 2004, when an Islamic radical killed the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.

    Like Denmark, the Netherlands has contributed troops and other support to U.S.-led military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq. But until the van Gogh killing, Dutch officials had played down the threat of terrorism at home."




    Try again. That analogy does not hold water.
    Thank you

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Your comment on that, as previously mentioned, is a rightist talking point that you've learned to repeat without knowing anything about. Aside from the fallacious claim that his views on a topic are sufficient to invalidate every single comment he's ever made, and aside from the fact that I've not even mentioned him as a source for my own claims in this thread, Noam Chomsky opposed Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge,
    Do I really have to bust out Chomsky's own words? He was a Khmer Rouge genocide denier, and now he simply blames the genocide on the U.S..

    but merely proposed that the number of deaths that they allegedly caused were overstated,
    Chomsky not only denied that the genocide was taking place despite vast amounts of evidence to the contrary, but he also said that the Khmer Rouge were a positive influence and credited them with saving up to a million lives. Once again you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about.

    since the U.S.-sponsored intervention in Cambodia in the early 1970's had wide-ranging repercussions that likely caused additional deaths. Your claim is repetition of a disingenuous myth.
    lol yep you just like Chomsky now want to blame the Khmer Rouge genocide on the U.S.. What a surprise.

    Since you contributed almost nothing to the thread,
    Except disproving every single one of your fallacious points regarding Allende, Arbenz, and Mossadeq.

    refused to answer my main points,
    I pwned your ass with facts.

    made comical claims about the Barbary pirates (),
    You mean quoted primary sources regarding the Barbary Pirates claims that they had divine right to murder, rob from, and enslave all non-Muslims?

    and cluttered the thread by copying and pasting off-topic, disingenuous garbage, run along now.
    You mean primary sources and secondary sources citing primary sources debunking your claims?

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