View Poll Results: Is "Islamic Terrorism" Dependent on or Independent of U.S. Foreign Policy?

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  • Dependent. Such terrorism would likely not exist if U.S. foreign policy were different.

    25 49.02%
  • Independent. Islamic terrorism would exist at current levels regardless.

    26 50.98%
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Thread: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

  1. #91
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Do I really have to bust out Chomsky's own words?
    Yes please

  2. #92
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The second take on this would be that;
    Terrorists, as individuals, are mostly irrational beings that are capable of the murdering of innocents based on their nationality merely in order to promote a political agenda.
    What makes you think they are more irrational than people in the US army, or political leadership in the US who orders bombings and so fourth? What makes you believe they are less rational than Israeli soldiers, generals or politicians?
    Perhaps the problem is really, that they are rational.
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  3. #93
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    What makes you think they are more irrational than people in the US army, or political leadership in the US who orders bombings and so fourth? What makes you believe they are less rational than Israeli soldiers, generals or politicians?
    Perhaps the problem is really, that they are rational.
    What makes me think that?
    Sanity, perhaps.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What makes me think that?
    Sanity, perhaps.
    Do you ever try to understand things from other perspectives than your own and the people around you, or your nation or alliance? They could have perfectly "rational" reasons for what they do, just like a Israeli soldier has when he shoots an arab.

    Yet, it is insane to shoot a person, just like it is to blow up one. Both actions are rationalized by the person, in a way.

    And.. Why do you insist that sanity is looking at things in your own way? Perhaps you are also insane in other peoples eyes for the things you think and the things you do.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 11-11-09 at 01:42 PM.
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Do you ever try to understand things from other perspectives than your own and the people around you, or your nation or alliance? They could have perfectly "rational" reasons for what they do, just like a Israeli soldier has when he shoots an arab.

    Yet, it is insane to shoot a person, just like it is to blow up one. Both actions are rationalized by the person, in a way.

    And.. Why do you insist that sanity is looking at things in your own way? Perhaps you are also insane in other peoples eyes for the things you think and the things you do.
    You take perspective and give it too much meaning.

    While it is very important to look at issues from all of the involved perspectives, the perspective of those who go against the human moral code shouldn't be taken into mind, from the same reason that we do not try and justify murders by justifying the murderer's intentions(money, hatred, etc).
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    You take perspective and give it too much meaning.

    While it is very important to look at issues from all of the involved perspectives, the perspective of those who go against the human moral code shouldn't be taken into mind,
    So then anyone in the military should never be taken into consideration? They have their ideological reasons to be in the military ready to "kill the enemy", just like terrorists have their ideological reasons to be a terrorist and "kill the enemy"..

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    from the same reason that we do not try and justify murders by justifying the murderer's intentions(money, hatred, etc).
    Thats something else alltogether. Both terrorists and western militants are in it for ideological reasons. There is also a hatred in the military for their enemies just like there is hatred for "the enemy" for terrorists. What do I know though. For all I know, the terrorists could do it for strictly ideological reasons without any hated at all.
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Yes please
    Chomsky's Khmer Rouge genocide denial:

    ...there are many other sources on recent events in Cambodia that have not been brought to the attention of the American reading public. Space limitations preclude a comprehensive review, but such journals as the Far Eastern Economic Review, the London Economist, the Melbourne Journal of Politics, and others elsewhere, have provided analyses by highly qualified specialists who have studied the full range of evidence available, and who concluded that executions have numbered at most in the thousands; that these were localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge influence and unusual peasant discontent, where brutal revenge killings were aggravated by the threat of starvation resulting from the American destruction and killing.


    Chomsky stating that the Khmer Rouge were a positive influence:

    If a serious study…is someday undertaken, it may well be discovered…that the Khmer Rouge programs elicited a positive response…because they dealt with fundamental problems rooted in the feudal past and exacerbated by the imperial system.… Such a study, however, has yet to be undertaken.

  8. #98
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Chomsky's Khmer Rouge genocide denial:

    ...there are many other sources on recent events in Cambodia that have not been brought to the attention of the American reading public. Space limitations preclude a comprehensive review, but such journals as the Far Eastern Economic Review, the London Economist, the Melbourne Journal of Politics, and others elsewhere, have provided analyses by highly qualified specialists who have studied the full range of evidence available, and who concluded that executions have numbered at most in the thousands; that these were localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge influence and unusual peasant discontent, where brutal revenge killings were aggravated by the threat of starvation resulting from the American destruction and killing.


    Chomsky stating that the Khmer Rouge were a positive influence:

    If a serious study…is someday undertaken, it may well be discovered…that the Khmer Rouge programs elicited a positive response…because they dealt with fundamental problems rooted in the feudal past and exacerbated by the imperial system.… Such a study, however, has yet to be undertaken.
    Well the first quote pretty muchs echos what Agnaposte said, I.E Chomskys only point was that many of the deaths attributable to the Khmer Rouge are attributable to U.S intervention. The second is more intresting but ild like to see some context. I find all those ...........s suspicious. Also saying these reforms elicited a possitive responce isnt the same as condoning them, most would accept that Hitlers reforms enjoyed the support of many (if not most) Germans but thats not the same as saying these reforms were good.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 11-12-09 at 04:15 PM.

  9. #99
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Well the first quote pretty muchs echos what Agnaposte said, I.E Chomskys only point was that many of the deaths attributable to the Khmer Rouge are attributable to U.S intervention.
    And that's a god damn ****ing lie backed up by 0 evidence, and in fact the evidence completely contradicts that and undeniably leads the conclusion that Pol Pot committed the worst genocide as a % of the population in the history of the planet and any accusation to the contrary is Khmer Rouge genocide denial, but Chomsky went even further to state that the Khmer Rouge were responsible for at most 1,000 deaths, that is no different than stating that Hitler killed at most 1,000 Jews and that those deaths were the result of the allied bombing campaigns. Get ****ing real, the man is a genocide denier and his defenders are ****ing sick in the head.

    second is more intresting but ild like to see some context. I find all those ...........s suspicious.
    In what context could that straight forward quote be taken any differently? Chomsky said that the Khmer Rouge were a positive influence, end of story.

    Regardless here's the full quote:

    "If a serious study of the impact of Western imperialism on Cambodian peasant life is someday undertaken, it may well be discovered that the violence lurking behind the Khmer smile, on which Meyer and others have commented, is not a reflection of obscure traits in peasant culture and psychology, but is the direct and understandable response to the violence of the imperial system, and that its current manifestations are a no less direct and understandable response to the still more concentrated and extreme savagery of a U.S. assault that may in part have been designed to evoke this very response, as we have noted. Such a study may also show that the Khmer Rouge programs elicited a positive response from some sectors of the Cambodian peasantry because they dealt with fundamental problems rooted in the feudal past and exacerbated by the imperial system with its final outburst of uncontrolled barbarism.

    In other words West = Bad, Khmer Rouge = Good, thanks for playing.

    Chomsky is a sick **** who aligns himself with white nationalists and perpetrators of genocide, you keep good company.

    Also saying these reforms elicited a possitive responce isnt the same as condoning them,
    You're joking right?


    most would accept that Hitlers reforms enjoyed the support of many (if not most) Germans but thats not the same as saying these reforms were good.
    Say that Hitler was a positive influence on Germany = saying that he was good for Germany, words mean things.

  10. #100
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    Re: "Islamic Terrorism" - Dependent or Independent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    And that's a god damn ****ing lie backed up by 0 evidence, and in fact the evidence completely contradicts that and undeniably leads the conclusion that Pol Pot committed the worst genocide as a % of the population in the history of the planet and any accusation to the contrary is Khmer Rouge genocide denial, but Chomsky went even further to state that the Khmer Rouge were responsible for at most 1,000 deaths, that is no different than stating that Hitler killed at most 1,000 Jews and that those deaths were the result of the allied bombing campaigns. Get ****ing real, the man is a genocide denier and his defenders are ****ing sick in the head.



    In what context could that straight forward quote be taken any differently? Chomsky said that the Khmer Rouge were a positive influence, end of story.

    Regardless here's the full quote:

    "If a serious study of the impact of Western imperialism on Cambodian peasant life is someday undertaken, it may well be discovered that the violence lurking behind the Khmer smile, on which Meyer and others have commented, is not a reflection of obscure traits in peasant culture and psychology, but is the direct and understandable response to the violence of the imperial system, and that its current manifestations are a no less direct and understandable response to the still more concentrated and extreme savagery of a U.S. assault that may in part have been designed to evoke this very response, as we have noted. Such a study may also show that the Khmer Rouge programs elicited a positive response from some sectors of the Cambodian peasantry because they dealt with fundamental problems rooted in the feudal past and exacerbated by the imperial system with its final outburst of uncontrolled barbarism.

    In other words West = Bad, Khmer Rouge = Good, thanks for playing.

    Chomsky is a sick **** who aligns himself with white nationalists and perpetrators of genocide, you keep good company.



    You're joking right?




    Say that Hitler was a positive influence on Germany = saying that he was good for Germany, words mean things.
    Thats not the point. We,re talking about eliciting a posstive responce from sections of the population not having a possitive influence. Noboddy has mentioned a possitive influence here. Words do mean things but you seam unable to comprehend them. He said they were popular with some sections of the population, not good.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 11-12-09 at 05:03 PM.

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