View Poll Results: What is your politics?

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  • social conservative, economic conservative, aggressive foreign policy

    2 5.56%
  • social conservative, economic conservative, internationalist foreign policy

    3 8.33%
  • social liberal, economic conservative, aggressive foreign policy

    8 22.22%
  • social liberal, economic conservative, internationalist foreign policy

    7 19.44%
  • social conservative, economic liberal, aggressive foreign policy

    3 8.33%
  • social conservative, economic liberal, internationalist foreign policy

    1 2.78%
  • social liberal, economic liberal, aggressive foreign policy

    2 5.56%
  • social liberal, economic liberal, internationalist foreign policy

    10 27.78%
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Thread: What is your politics?

  1. #41
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I see. I have heard of this policy preference before. A quik websearch found Constitution Party Platform Policy:



    I note that the Monroe Doctrine was all about intervening in Latin America, was it not?

    These quotes specify an aversion to European entanglements, because "Hence, she [Europe] must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns". For reasons like you mention: nuclear proliferation, as well as economic concerns like access to oil and free shipping lanes, our interests are entwined with countries especially like the ME which impacts all three example reasons.

    The Foreign Policy Agenda of the US Dept of State is:

    So from my perspective, and I could be forcing this a bit, is that we can assume an aggressive foreign policy to nation build and spread democracy, in geopolitically important areas like the ME, with countries that have the capacity for democracy, like Iraq. It is in our interests.

    Would that not be inline with the constitution? Do you have a link which could explain this?
    So from my perspective, and I could be forcing this a bit, is that we can assume an aggressive foreign policy to nation build and spread democracy, in geopolitically important areas like the ME, with countries that have the capacity for democracy, like Iraq. It is in our interests.

    Would that not be inline with the constitution? Do you have a link which could explain this?
    By your logic, the constitution's meaning can be defined by whoever is in power at any given time. This outlook requires a willful ignorance of the constitution. In the passage you just quoted, it states in no uncertain terms that America is to not concern itself with the affairs of others on the international stage.
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  2. #42
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    By your logic, the constitution's meaning can be defined by whoever is in power at any given time. This outlook requires a willful ignorance of the constitution. In the passage you just quoted, it states in no uncertain terms that America is to not concern itself with the affairs of others on the international stage.
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    This is predicated on the fact that it is not in our interest. I am saying that the political well-being of the ME is in our economic and security interest.

    Ok, at least George Washington said so, though not the others (I already pointed out where Monroe said one thing about Europe and did another regarding Latin America).

    So where in the constitution does this get specified?
    Last edited by reefedjib; 10-29-09 at 09:57 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Ok, well why not Somalia? Sudan? What about Yemen?

    Where does it end?

    North Korea has an insane and rogue dictator WITH NUKES! Why not him?

    We don't have enough troops for all of your plans, bro.
    Somalia, Sudan and Yemen are not in geopolically important areas. North korea I am not sure about. I think it is better if China handles the situation, with our assistance.

    We need lots of peacekeeping forces, both military and civilian, but we have to be sure to not overreach, like we are doing with Iraq and AFG together.

  4. #44
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Somalia, Sudan and Yemen are not in geopolically important areas. North korea I am not sure about. I think it is better if China handles the situation, with our assistance.

    We need lots of peacekeeping forces, both military and civilian, but we have to be sure to not overreach, like we are doing with Iraq and AFG together.
    The Chinese are not going to help in NK. They will continue to prop up Kim, b/c if the country falls apart, they don't want all the refugees, which would be in the millions. So forget that.

    I would argue Iraq wasn't geopolitically important. We already have over-reached. Are you still on active duty? I hope you are bearing the burden for everything that you are advocating.

  5. #45
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    This is predicated on the fact that it is not in our interest. I am saying that the political well-being of the ME is in our economic and security interest.

    Ok, at least George Washington said so, though not the others (I already pointed out where Monroe said one thing about Europe and did another regarding Latin America).

    So where in the constitution does this get specified?
    That's the thing, though. The constitution clearly outlines what is in our best interest, at least according to the founding fathers. You quoted it a few posts earlier.

  6. #46
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    That's the thing, though. The constitution clearly outlines what is in our best interest, at least according to the founding fathers. You quoted it a few posts earlier.
    I did? I quoted George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams and James Monroe, but not the Constitution itself. The thing is, interests change and policy needs to change with them.

  7. #47
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    I would argue Iraq wasn't geopolitically important. We already have over-reached. Are you still on active duty? I hope you are bearing the burden for everything that you are advocating.
    Ok, I would argue that Iraq is definitely geopolitically important. It is the heart of the ME. It is the nexus where the major faultlines of the ME meet: Sunni/Shia, Persian/Arab, Arab/Kurd, Urban/Bedouin. It has a crapload of oil.

    Why don't you think it is geopolitically important?

    It also has capacity, with a high level of literacy and an established philosophy of democracy (the Quietist School of Ali Sistani).

    We are definitely over-reaching. If we leave AFG, then it will be fine.

    I am no longer on active duty. Last was 1990. Does this mean I am not allowed to have an opinion about their strategic use? I think not. They are doing a tremendous job!

  8. #48
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, I would argue that Iraq is definitely geopolitically important. It is the heart of the ME. It is the nexus where the major faultlines of the ME meet: Sunni/Shia, Persian/Arab, Arab/Kurd, Urban/Bedouin. It has a crapload of oil.
    I think with our without our intervention, Iraq will be the same it would have been in 10 years.

    Why don't you think it is geopolitically important?
    Sorry, not worth 4K soldier's lives. Now we've overcommitted our forces and basically given Iran a proxy government in Iraq. Bad move. Iran always was and is more dangerous than Saddam.

    We are definitely over-reaching. If we leave AFG, then it will be fine.
    We won't and the problem will continue for a long time.

    Does this mean I am not allowed to have an opinion about their strategic use? I think not.
    You are advocating risk that you are not willing to take yourself for objectives not in the interest of national defense.

    They are doing a tremendous job!
    Of course. Soldiers follow orders, regardless of whether we agree with them or believe in them.

  9. #49
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    Re: What is your politics?

    [quote=kansaswhig;1058333432]I think with our without our intervention, Iraq will be the same it would have been in 10 years.

    Without our help, Iraq was going to magically disband their Sunni Army and reconstruct an ethnically balance force, introduce an NCO corps, introduce provential governments, revamp it's entire federal government to a democracy? In 10 years? Not in 50 years. We did it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Sorry, not worth 4K soldier's lives. Now we've overcommitted our forces and basically given Iran a proxy government in Iraq. Bad move. Iran always was and is more dangerous than Saddam.
    In Vietnam we lost some 58,000 soldiers, I think. Worth it? I don't think so.
    In WW2 we stopped aggressors and spread democracy. We lost some 292,000 soldiers. Worth it? I do think so.
    In Iraq we are spreading democracy and shut down a tyrant and an aggressor. We've lost some 4,000 soldiers. A very small number compared to other conflicts. Saddened by their loss. But worth it? I definitely think so, and I hope all active soldiers feel the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    You are advocating risk that you are not willing to take yourself for objectives not in the interest of national defense.
    I tried to re-up but they said I had to pass the PT test again. At 41, I am not in that kind of shape anymore. I wanted to go into Intelligence, since COIN is an Intelligence war. Maybe learn Arabic. Saabah al Khair.

    Anyone that talks about putting troops in harms way is advocating risk. All that should be asked is that the objectives be in the country's interest, though not necesarily in the interest of national defense. Transforming Iraq into a democracy is in the country's interest.

    It is in our interest for more than just internally seeing Iraq a democracy, and getting rid of Saddam. It is the impact Iraq will have regionally that makes it particularly geopolitically important. We see some of what is happening in Iran recently. Basically a power struggle between groups of clerics. This is because of Iran. So not only is Iran influencing events in Iraq, but Iraq is influencing events in Iran. It is the Quietist School gaining influence in Qom.

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Of course. Soldiers follow orders, regardless of whether we agree with them or believe in them.
    I would hope that enough perspectives of the world are discussed with soldiers, so that they can find that belief. Are you active? Are you in or heading to Iraq or AFG? Your service means a lot to me. At least some brave men and women are willing to serve.

    Afghanistan worries me. Iraq is doing well, I think. Waiting for negotiations to complete on the election law regarding Kirkuk and the "Open Lists".

  10. #50
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    Re: What is your politics?

    Without our help, Iraq was going to magically disband their Sunni Army and reconstruct an ethnically balance force,
    Not really. The BNs are still relatively ethnic. Particularly the police. When I was an advisor to the IA, my BN was about 40% Kurd, 15% Turkomen and the rest Arab. However, because of the geographical location, most of the non-Kurds were "Kurdified", if you get my drift. My BN was an exception, most are exclusively ethnic.

    introduce an NCO corps,
    Uhhhhh...I wouldn't put to much stock in that

    introduce provential governments, revamp it's entire federal government to a democracy?
    We allowed the power-grabbers to get into position to further their respective ethnic causes and steal money. They are and always have been completely corrupt. I wouldn't call it a democracy. The Shia's are running the show and the Kurds are going to get theirs. The Sunnis? I'll let you use your imagination. Iranian influence should be an extreme concern. I've got some contacts in the know....their observations aren't good their predictions are scary.

    In 10 years? Not in 50 years. We did it.
    You don't know that. They would have cleansed each other just like they did with our presence. We sped up the process with bribes, compromises and security.

    In Vietnam we lost some 58,000 soldiers, I think. Worth it? I don't think so.
    Agree

    In WW2 we stopped aggressors and spread democracy. We lost some 292,000 soldiers. Worth it? I do think so.
    Agree

    In Iraq we are spreading democracy and shut down a tyrant and an aggressor. We've lost some 4,000 soldiers. A very small number compared to other conflicts. Saddened by their loss. But worth it? I definitely think so,
    Disagree

    and I hope all active soldiers feel the same way.
    Some do. Some don't. Some don't care. Some aren't alive to have an opinion.

    I tried to re-up but they said I had to pass the PT test again. At 41, I am not in that kind of shape anymore.
    Aw, come on; I got plenty of NCOs in my unit that old.

    I wanted to go into Intelligence, since COIN is an Intelligence war. Maybe learn Arabic.
    We need civilian interpreters with clearances. You would be perfect. I'd recommend pursuing it. Teach yourself Arabic on Rosetta Stone and then contact the State Dept. I'm serious. American terps with clearances are gold.

    Saabah al Khair.
    Sabah al-noor, sayydi.

    Anyone that talks about putting troops in harms way is advocating risk. All that should be asked is that the objectives be in the country's interest, though not necesarily in the interest of national defense.
    I'll die defending. But if my men die for "interest", I'll be pissed.

    Transforming Iraq into a democracy is in the country's interest.
    Disagree, sorry.

    It is in our interest for more than just internally seeing Iraq a democracy, and getting rid of Saddam. It is the impact Iraq will have regionally that makes it particularly geopolitically important. We see some of what is happening in Iran recently. Basically a power struggle between groups of clerics. This is because of Iran. So not only is Iran influencing events in Iraq, but Iraq is influencing events in Iran. It is the Quietist School gaining influence in Qom.
    The only influence is Iranians growing influence into Baghdad. They are going to get their way, trust me.

    I would hope that enough perspectives of the world are discussed with soldiers, so that they can find that belief.
    Generally, no. I've seen BN, BDE and DIV commanders try to explain why we were in Iraq. It was ugly and unconvincing.

    Are you active?
    Yes.

    Are you in or heading to Iraq or AFG?
    Yes, for a third tour.

    Your service means a lot to me. At least some brave men and women are willing to serve.
    As does yours. I hope that I didn't offend you. At least your a Hawk that has put on the uniform. Unlike Wolfowitz, Perle and Cheney.

    Afghanistan worries me.
    It should. Iraq was a cakewalk compared to that nightmare.

    Iraq is doing well, I think. Waiting for negotiations to complete on the election law regarding Kirkuk and the "Open Lists".
    Kirkuk is going to be ugly, but the Kurds are going to get theirs, trust me on that one. Been there many times. I have written several papers on Kirkuk for my masters. Predictive analysis mostly. I would like for you to read them.

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