View Poll Results: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

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  • Yes

    30 83.33%
  • No

    6 16.67%
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Thread: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

  1. #31
    Sage

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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Living "free" came to an abrupt end upon the entry of the second human... and the first sabre-toothed cat.
    And these impediments are still around, only magnified by several billion.
    So, what is meant by "free"?
    Using my relative definition, I'd say a very limited yes..

  2. #32
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    The rational ones do, sure.

    I'm not sure about the libertarians, though.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  3. #33
    I'm not-low all the time
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Freedom is the ability to make choices in accordance with our will. I'm simply wanting to know if most humans desire these circumstances.
    Very true.

    Anarchy however only assumes negative freedom, i.e. freedom to dissent. Positive freedom is the one requirement to establish both laws and government: freedom to conform. It is the balancing act between the two that dictates to the extent of a free society.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #34
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I'm not sure why anyone would want to be under somebody's jackboot, but if they do, they can join a cult. Don't force it on me
    That would be an example of positive freedom. It is when you cannot leave the cult (negative), where it begins to unravel.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #35
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    I never said that a person shouldn't be allowed to leave a cult, merely that if a person wants someone else making all or most of their decisions for them, they can have someone else do it. A tyrannical government isn't much differant from a cult leader anyway.

  6. #36
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Anarchy is not freedom. It's simply rule by those with the biggest stick. Freedom is most abundant in the practical sense with a small government that prevents people from injuring each other and little else.

  7. #37
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    .... a small government that prevents people from injuring each other .
    Just take that single statement and apply it to an overpopulated planet with tens of thousands of toxins, hazards and methods by which one person ( or group) can rapidly injure one person or very many. The need for rules, robust government to write and enforce rules and an uncorrupted judiciary should seem self-evident.

  8. #38
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Just take that single statement and apply it to an overpopulated planet with tens of thousands of toxins, hazards and methods by which one person ( or group) can rapidly injure one person or very many. The need for rules, robust government to write and enforce rules and an uncorrupted judiciary should seem self-evident.
    While a small government allows for conditions that are conducive toward economic growth, innovation, and increased standard of living. A large government only vomits other people's money everywhere with no idea where most of it should go. Yes, markets have negative externalities, but for everyone that it creates, most government regulation creates many many more.

  9. #39
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    While a small government allows for conditions that are conducive toward economic growth, innovation, and increased standard of living. A large government only vomits other people's money everywhere with no idea where most of it should go. Yes, markets have negative externalities, but for everyone that it creates, most government regulation creates many many more.
    Then you don't think that government should "prevent people from injuring each other."

    If you have an island with one limited source of clean water and only a small number of island inhabitants, there might be very few necessary restrictions on freedom. If, on the other hand, the number of island inhabitants pushes the limits of the carrying capacity of the island resources, the need for rules and restrictions becomes critical to group survival. I.M.O., that is where we find ourselves as a nation and planet.

  10. #40
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    Re: Do Rational Humans Desire to Live Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Then you don't think that government should "prevent people from injuring each other."

    If you have an island with one limited source of clean water and only a small number of island inhabitants, there might be very few necessary restrictions on freedom. If, on the other hand, the number of island inhabitants pushes the limits of the carrying capacity of the island resources, the need for rules and restrictions becomes critical to group survival. I.M.O., that is where we find ourselves as a nation and planet.
    Last I checked, there was no need for the government to tell us how much to eat or drink.

    In fact, last I checked, the government payed farmers to grow less food. If anything, our resources are more limited because of big government.

    In any case, that is not even remotely where we find ourselves "as a nation and planet".

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