View Poll Results: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

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Thread: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Again, childless couples are in fact inferior to child-rearing couples. I have no problem discriminating against and segregating childless couples.
    You're retreating from your previous stance that childless couples are entitled to equality under the law? Here is what you previously said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    They are not equal, so while couple are entitles to equality under the law, there is no right to be socially equal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Where did I make a gay-specific comment like that?

    Quote please?
    Sure:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    From my perspective, the current gay-marriage arguments and rationals harm me directly because they perpetuate if not exacerbate the divorce rate and related juvenile crime/abortion/teen-pregnancy rate, which in turn harm the economy.
    Are you contending that the arguments in favor of gay marriage are triggering the impact rather than the actual gay marriage? That'll take some explaining, but does not reduce your burden of proof. I'd still need to see evidence supporting that factual claim.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're retreating from your previous stance that childless couples are entitled to equality under the law? Here is what you previously said:
    I never said childless couples were entitled to anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We might create some legal package or special rights to assist monogamous couples who are not raising children, but that package would not be a right. Such a package would be like a driver's license: 'shall-issue' unless there is reason to revoke it. The state has no interest in promoting couples who are not raising children, and in fact violates that couples right to privacy when it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Are you contending that the arguments in favor of gay marriage are triggering the impact rather than the actual gay marriage?
    Yes.

    In so far as I know, gay marriage itself is benign.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That'll take some explaining, but does not reduce your burden of proof. I'd still need to see evidence supporting that factual claim.
    You'll need to tell me what, specifically, you're looking for? I've seen the divorce rate and I've read many and argument claiming that gay-marriage would likly have the same divorce rate.

    That's what I mean by "perpetuation". An anti-gm person sites the promiscuity of gay men and is concerned that gay-marriage will increase the divorce rate. Then the pro-gm person argues that gays will have about the same divorce rate as hetero in an attempt to counter the anti-gm argument.

    However, "Gays will also have a 50% divorce rate" is a reason to oppose, not support, gay-marriage, because "hetero will also have a 50% divorce rate" is a reason to oppose hetero-marriage as well.

    One goal is to lower the divorce rate drastically, so any demographic which will carry that 50% divorce rate is an obstacle to achieving the goal.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-18-09 at 01:31 AM.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metternich View Post
    I'm fairly certain you can't base a law off of love, or any emotion.

    So, in that regard, your definition always falls short.
    I'm pretty sure that it is unconstitutional to base laws on having kids to. For example, eugenics.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I never said childless couples were entitled to anything.
    Technically you said they're "entitles" to equality, but I think you meant entitled

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    couple are entitles to equality under the law
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    However, "Gays will also have a 50% divorce rate" is a reason to oppose, not support, gay-marriage, because "hetero will also have a 50% divorce rate" is a reason to oppose hetero-marriage as well.

    One goal is to lower the divorce rate drastically, so any demographic which will carry that 50% divorce rate is an obstacle to achieving the goal.
    Ah ok. I think I get your argument now. Adding on more marriages which have the same divorce rate wouldn't increase the divorce rate (it would still be 50%), although you're right it would increase the number of divorces.

    But, your arguments about why divorces are bad all rely on the notion that there are children involved. A childless marriage wouldn't trigger the consequences you're listing of divorce, so they're irrelevant. So, we're just talking about marriages with children, which you say you support for both same and opposite sex couples. So if you don't want divorces because they hurt the children, and you go from there to saying you don't want marriages because they can end in divorce, then what exactly are you looking for? No children? Or single parents only? Seems like your argument has kind of worked itself into a corner that doesn't make much sense.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    the government needs to be out of marriage.

    separation of church and state rings a bell ?

  6. #76
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Yes! I look forward to the day this is not even an "issue".
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  7. #77
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Technically you said they're "entitles" to equality, but I think you meant entitled
    You're going to get left behind if you allow yourself to keep getting caught up on minor typos.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ah ok. I think I get your argument now. Adding on more marriages which have the same divorce rate wouldn't increase the divorce rate (it would still be 50%), although you're right it would increase the number of divorces.

    But, your arguments about why divorces are bad all rely on the notion that there are children involved. A childless marriage wouldn't trigger the consequences you're listing of divorce, so they're irrelevant. So, we're just talking about marriages with children, which you say you support for both same and opposite sex couples. So if you don't want divorces because they hurt the children, and you go from there to saying you don't want marriages because they can end in divorce, then what exactly are you looking for? No children? Or single parents only? Seems like your argument has kind of worked itself into a corner that doesn't make much sense.
    Monogamous couples raising children. That's who should have access to "marriage", and no one else.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Yes! I look forward to the day this is not even an "issue".
    Abortion and interracial marriage are still an issues, you'll be waiting a long time.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    the government needs to be out of marriage.

    separation of church and state rings a bell ?
    Not as it applies to marriage, no.

    Did you have a coherent thought or were you just trolling again? Just let me know either way.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    I think he just means that in his opinion it would be superior if government did not give any specific privileges to couples because marriage has traditionally been in religion for the vast majority of religions.

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