View Poll Results: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

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  • Yes

    41 47.67%
  • No

    40 46.51%
  • Other/Don't know

    5 5.81%
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Thread: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yes....under the Equal protection clause. Anytime the government grants rights or privileges, it cannot under the US Constitution deny those rights to any cognizable group without there being ( at a minimum) a legitimate state interest for doing so. More likely Gays would be analyzed under the second tier of equal protection requiring an "important governmental interest" for the restriction. I doubt there is even a legitimate basis that could be upheld.
    That is an example of ignoring the real problems, such as what causes divorce.

    I'm a pragmatic, goal-oriented person who regards distractions from the goal with hostility.

    The goal is to lower the divorce rate. If gay-marriage is not a solution, even in part, then it is a distraction and I'll oppose it for simply being a nuisance.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That is an example of ignoring the real problems, such as what causes divorce.

    I'm a pragmatic, goal-oriented person who regards distractions from the goal with hostility.

    The goal is to lower the divorce rate. If gay-marriage is not a solution, even in part, then it is a distraction and I'll oppose it for simply being a nuisance.
    Yeah...of course...don't let little things like equal protection under the US Constitution get in the way.....that document is a HUGE nuisance to people such as yourself.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yeah...of course...don't let little things like equal protection under the US Constitution get in the way.....that document is a HUGE nuisance to people such as yourself.
    Childless couples are not equal to child-rearing couples.

    A child-rearing gay couple > a childless hetero couple.

    The child-rearing gay couple should get the "marriage", while the childless hetero couple should be denied a "marriage".

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Keep in mind that we are not speaking of any civil rights.

    We are only talking about a word.

    IMO gays can have all the same civil rights, but not the word.
    I thought this thread was about marriage being a right or not?

    And what's the problem with gay's "having" the word "marriage"? It is just a word after all to describe a union between two people that love each other. The word has even been used by many different cultures in many different areas so it's not like it's reserved by any one group.
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That is an example of ignoring the real problems, such as what causes divorce.

    I'm a pragmatic, goal-oriented person who regards distractions from the goal with hostility.

    The goal is to lower the divorce rate. If gay-marriage is not a solution, even in part, then it is a distraction and I'll oppose it for simply being a nuisance.
    The US has no studies (that I'm aware of) of it being a liability towards marriage or being helpful. Though common sense would show that it does help marriage since gay's would marry..which means more marriages. Since gay's would not get married at all if they are not allowed to marry who they wish to marry.

    As far as divorce rate goes surely you're not attributing this to gays? Am I reading you wrong? The only thing that's going to help lower divorce rate is to 1: raise the bar on why a person may get divorced and 2: start teaching people self responsibility instead of this entitlement crap that seems to be prevalent now adays.
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Childless couples are not equal to child-rearing couples.

    A child-rearing gay couple > a childless hetero couple.

    The child-rearing gay couple should get the "marriage", while the childless hetero couple should be denied a "marriage".
    So the only reason in your mind for a marriage is for procreation/raising kids?

    .
    .
    .
    Well to each their own I guess. Personally I've always considered marriage as the ultimate way to show your love for someone.
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    I'm fairly certain you can't base a law off of love, or any emotion.

    So, in that regard, your definition always falls short.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We decided we didn't want to follow the 501c3 rules. We wanted to hold services and events on public school grounds for students, give each patron an individual candle to hold for the Christmas service, endorse or oppose politicians and laws, invite politicians to speak, etc.
    I'm not sure if that's cool or scary to me... Maybe both

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Keep in mind that we are not speaking of any civil rights.

    We are only talking about a word.

    IMO gays can have all the same civil rights, but not the word.
    How do you mean. Are you talking about civil unions? Because they still don't confer the same benefits in most states or companies. To me, that's a clear cut civil rights issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    First, I do not oppose gay-rights. You may note that my objections regard each and every single couple who have no intention of being monogamous and raising children. That includes heteros. That includes mixed races. That includes gays. A childless gay couple is equal in every way to a childless hetero couple in that ALL childless couples are equally worthless.
    Now I'm lost. A childless hetero couple has tons of rights being denied a childless gay couple. What exactly do you propose to restore equality between the two situations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Second, if I opposed gay "marriage" simply because I'm hetero, then gays only desire "marriage" because they're homo.
    I didn't say that. I said you want to have legal heterosexual marriage because you're heterosexual. Same like gay people want to have legal homosexual marriage because they're homosexual. So, your argument that "the reason you support hetero marriage isn't equality" doesn't have bearing. You can support whatever kind of marriage you want, but you can't oppose somebody else's right to be married because that would violate the principal of equality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well if it doesn't affect me then I don't see why I should support it.
    You shouldn't. You just shouldn't oppose it. If something causes suffering for another group, your only ethically legitimate positions are to favor ending the suffering because you magnanimously want to do something positive for another group, or to stay out of it because it doesn't involve you. To perpetuate suffering for another group when it doesn't effect you? That is not an ethically acceptable position.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    The bottom line is, if people want gays to have marriage rights, they'd happen. Let's stop hiding behind all this constitutional garbage about how they don't need the right, and blah blah blah. There is nothing wrong with them having the right. There are too many assumptions about what homosexuality is that are blocking the discussion. All the legal minutiae being debated are just a cover for core feelings.

    Eventually gays will be able to marry everywhere in the Western world. The opposition are just delaying the inevitable. There is no logical argument against it.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So a friend of mine posted this on Facebook:
    Barack Obama Ignores The 14th Amendment When It Comes To Same-Sex Marriage Equality Across America

    And it got me thinking. The 14th Amendment states:
    “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

    According to Loving v Virginia (Loving v. Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), this means that marriage requirements cannot be based on race.

    So does this mean, then, that the right to marriage cannot be restricted based on gender?

    I am interested to see what people think of this.

    You follow homosexual wants, and desires?

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