View Poll Results: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

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    41 47.67%
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    40 46.51%
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Thread: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Equal protection of the law is a constitutional right. Marriage is a form of protection the law offers, so it is constitutionally required that it be applied equally regardless of sexual orientation.
    It already is, though.

    Can you quote the law preventing a homosexual man from marrying a homosexual woman?

    If you can't, then please realize that marriage does not therefor prevent homosexuals from entering into it.

    And before you go there, no, heteros have no such right or freedom to marry just whomever we think we're in love with, either.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-17-09 at 04:02 AM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It already is, though.
    How so? The SCOTUS hasn't ruled yet on whether bans on gay marriage violate the 14th amendment and most states are currently denying gay people the right to marry...

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How so? The SCOTUS hasn't ruled yet on whether bans on gay marriage violate the 14th amendment and most states are currently denying gay people the right to marry...
    I answer your question in my edit.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Can you quote the law preventing a homosexual man from marrying a homosexual woman?
    Oh this argument... That's equivalent to saying that a law that says everybody is allowed to attend Christian churches, but nobody is allowed to attend Muslim mosques doesn't discriminate against Muslims because they're free to attend Christian churches just like everybody else... It's just a semantic game. The reality is that in most states gay people aren't legally allowed to marry the gender they're attracted to while straight people are.

    Would you feel differently if the law said that only same sex couples were allowed to marry?

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Oh this argument... That's equivalent to saying that a law that says everybody is allowed to attend Christian churches, but nobody is allowed to attend Muslim mosques doesn't discriminate against Muslims because they're free to attend Christian churches just like everybody else... It's just a semantic game.
    Oh, then you must be able to quote the law allowing 2 heterosexual men, or 2 heterosexual women, to marry, if this is about discriminating against gays.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The reality is that in most states gay people aren't legally allowed to marry the gender they're attracted to while straight people are.
    I see no reason to assume that's a bad thing. Why should it change?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Would you feel differently if the law said that only same sex couples were allowed to marry?
    Inherently, of course, but rather my different feeling would be a negative feeling would depend on what sort of world that were.

    ***
    Feelings have no value in any event, so let's stick to facts if you don't mind.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-17-09 at 04:18 AM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Oh, then you must be able to quote the law allowing 2 heterosexual men, or 2 heterosexual women, to marry, if this is about discriminating against gays.
    That doesn't circumvent my analogy. In the example I gave Christians would not be allowed to attend mosques either, but it would clearly be a violation of the equal protection of Muslims, wouldn't it?

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That doesn't circumvent my analogy. In the example I gave Christians would not be allowed to attend mosques either, but it would clearly be a violation of the equal protection of Muslims, wouldn't it?
    One of the critical differences between marriage and religion which invalidate your analogy is that marriage is about what the government will actively endorse, while the government has to stay completely out of the issue of religion, endorsing none.

    If you would now like to discuss gay marriage, the topic of this thread, please stop ignoring the content of my posts and directly address them accordingly.

    • Can you quote the law preventing a homosexual man from marrying a homosexual woman?
    • Can you quote the law allowing 2 heterosexual men, or 2 heterosexual women, to marry?
    • Why should anyone be allowed to marry the same gender?
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-17-09 at 04:32 AM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    No. Marriage is not a "consitutional right". Not everyone is allowed to get married such as those with close family ties, children and even those of the same gender.

    The case of Loving vs. Virginia does not apply to this debate as it only considered race as a factor to marriage. In Loving, the couple in question consisted of one man and one woman.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You want to run that one by me again?
    You want me to just cut-n-paste the same post or what?

    Just read it a few more time, seriously, sometimes I have to do that myself.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    One of the critical differences between marriage and religion which invalidate your analogy is that marriage is about what the government will actively endorse, while the government has to stay completely out of the issue of religion, endorsing none.
    Ok, then change the example to granting tax exempt status. If the government granted tax exemption to one church, but not to others, would you see that as discriminatory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why should anyone be allowed to marry the same gender?
    Constitutionally because the equal protection clause requires that if people of one sexual orientation are allowed to marry the gender they're attracted to, the other needs to be as well.

    Morally there are lots of reasons:

    1) Government endorsing the message that gay people are inferior by prohibiting gay marriage supports a culture of prejudice in general against gays. That prejudice provides a fertile ground for violent hate crimes, employment discrimination, etc. An organization like a government can't say that one group is inferior to another then wash their hands of responsibility for the hate that a view like that engenders.
    2) Gay marriage only effects gay people. It has no impact whatsoever on straight people. So, it really isn't any of your business telling other people what to do when it doesn't have anything to do with you.
    3) Gay people are suffering all kinds of negative impacts by not being allowed to marry. When their spouse is hospitalized they aren't able to make decisions on their behalf, maybe not even allowed to visit. When a gay person's spouse gets insurance through their employer they often aren't covered. When their spouse passes away the estate needs to go through a will. If they didn't have a will, the spouse gets nothing. If they did have a will, the spouse may need to pay inheritance taxes on their own property, etc.
    Last edited by teamosil; 10-17-09 at 04:50 AM.

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