View Poll Results: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

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  • Yes

    41 47.67%
  • No

    40 46.51%
  • Other/Don't know

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Thread: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

  1. #171
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    While I do understand what you're saying...

    Seems that if you have something because the state gave it to you, you were granted a privilege, as the state cannot grant rights.
    Fundamentally I agree with that. The State did not grant marriage, but rather usurped marriage.

    Personally, I see this problem cleared up by removing the contract from marriage and returning it to ward of the Church. The contracts involved in marriage can be offered to people who can freely fill them out and choose for themselves whom they want to manage their estate and papers and such.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #172
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    14th amendment and the FCC clause. Good luck on fighting that unless you can get some activist right wing judges in there.
    So I take it that you admit that the supreme court's interpretation is based on mostly on what they say not what is actually in the constitution?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  3. #173
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Okay fine what does does it mean that all men are created equal?

    The SCOTUS has ruled on marriage and it is a right. You want to fight the ruling go to the SCOTUS.
    If it were a right, why is it that gay people are prohibited? That's not a right. If the SCOTUS ruled it a right, the States could no longer deny it to same sex couples. In the end, your arguments make little to no sense. There isn't a lot of effort put forward. If you wish to have an impact and contribute to the debate, you're going to have to put for an intelligent argument. Not just "SCOTUS said blah" with no evidence, no argument, and no point.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #174
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Okay fine what does does it mean that all men are created equal?

    The SCOTUS has ruled on marriage and it is a right. You want to fight the ruling go to the SCOTUS.
    On balance, SCOTUS also ruled that women did not in fact have the civil right to vote, which is why we had to create the 19th amendment.

    I suspect a similar amendment will have to be created regarding marriage, as there is no right to marry someone of the same gender.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So I take it that you admit that the supreme court's interpretation is based on mostly on what they say not what is actually in the constitution?
    Nope, I think it is based on equality man woman gay straight or religion we are all equal. And that is what I think the Constitution says and that is what I think the majority of the Founding Fathers strived for despite their own personal shortcomings.

  6. #176
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    On balance, SCOTUS also ruled that women did not in fact have the civil right to vote, which is why we had to create the 19th amendment.

    I suspect a similar amendment will have to be created regarding marriage, as there is no right to marry someone of the same gender.
    There is a right to marriage however.

  7. #177
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If we have laws against racial discrimination then that is what I would base my legal objection on. Other than that I would petition to change the law.
    Are you aware that those laws against racial discrimination are founded upon principles set forth in the Constitution?

    In effect, you are saying your argument would be based on the Constitution. Your position is untenable.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If it were a right, why is it that gay people are prohibited?
    I do not have the foggiest idea other than peoples get suppressed for what ever reason.

  9. #179
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Good luck on that argument in some fantasy world.
    I see you recognize that you cannot defend your position.

    It probably stems from your lack of understanding of the issue, regarding inherent rights and state-granted privileges, your unwillingness to admit that you're wrong, or both.

    See, you can repeat your "the SCotUS says marriage is a right" line all you want -- but if all the states repeal their laws, then the legal institution of marriage ceases to exist, regardless of what the SCotUS says.

    That being the case, as the legal institution of marriage is a creature of the state, marriage then MUST be a state-specified privilege, as states do not -- indeed can not -- grant rights.

    MUST be. MUST be, as in 'this is a logically inescapable conclusion', with your 'the SCotUS says...' nothing more than a fallacious appeal to authority.

    Disagree? Then address my questions.

  10. #180
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Fundamentally I agree with that. The State did not grant marriage, but rather usurped marriage.

    Personally, I see this problem cleared up by removing the contract from marriage and returning it to ward of the Church. The contracts involved in marriage can be offered to people who can freely fill them out and choose for themselves whom they want to manage their estate and papers and such.
    Obviously, the state did this in the interest oif codifying the various aspects of the property rights involved, as is necessary.

    What happens to that if the state divorces itself from marriage? How are those property rights then handled?

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