View Poll Results: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

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Thread: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    They receive government funding.
    I don't think that's true. Do you have a source for that? Could be that they middleman stafford loans and whatnot or something, but I do not believe that the government is giving them any funding to help pay for scholarships that are given out on the basis of race. On their website they say they are funded solely through charitable contributions of individuals, foundations and corporations. The Foundation Center, which studies and rates various charities, says the same. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Or are you ok with, say, the Boy Scouts discriminating while receiving government funding?
    Ok, this is just getting silly. That has nothing to do with the topic of whether prohibiting gay marriage violates equal protection.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I don't think that's true. Do you have a source for that? Could be that they middleman stafford loans and whatnot or something, but I do not believe that the government is giving them any funding to help pay for scholarships that are given out on the basis of race. On their website they say they are funded solely through charitable contributions of individuals, foundations and corporations. The Foundation Center, which studies and rates various charities, says the same. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
    Not really, no, I haven't researched them in the slightest, they are just who came to mind. As I said, it's Ethereal's point so I'll let him argue it.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ok, this is just getting silly. That has nothing to do with the topic of whether prohibiting gay marriage violates equal protection.
    It wasn't supposed to.

    It had to do with organizations being allowed to discriminate while receiving public funds.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Voldemort View Post
    Is the government's refusal on recognizing gay marriage a valid exercise of government power?
    Yes.

    There is no obvious reason to assume children will result from the union, so there is no compelling interest in violating the gay couple's right to privacy.

    It's rather quite noble for the state to recuse itself from relationships it has no business melding in.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-18-09 at 07:57 PM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It had to do with organizations being allowed to discriminate while receiving public funds.
    Generally speaking I'd say I'm against organizations being allowed to discriminate while receiving public funds, but there are always exceptions I guess. Like having boyscouts only allow boys and girl scouts only girls doesn't bother me... I would think that would be an example of where separate is not unequal because there is no implied inferiority of either group by having them separate. Although I have to admit, when I was a kid the boy scouts at my school did way, way, cooler stuff than the girl scouts... Like we'd go on a four day canoeing/camping trip and they girl scouts would meet up somewhere and learn to knit for an hour... Probably just a lame girl scout leader though.

    I don't know anything about the issue though. Is there more to it? If it's causing some problems somewhere I'd reconsider.
    Last edited by teamosil; 10-18-09 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by NEUROSPORT View Post
    the government needs to be out of marriage.

    separation of church and state rings a bell ?
    You can be married without once going to a church or having a pastor/priest/rabbi etc etc marrying you.

    And getting married wasn't always a church thing. In fact marriages through the state was quite common before the church ever even got involved in the marriage business.
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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Generally speaking I'd say I'm against organizations being allowed to discriminate while receiving public funds, but there are always exceptions I guess. Like having boyscouts only allow boys and girl scouts only girls doesn't bother me... I would think that would be an example of where separate is not unequal because there is no implied inferiority of either group by having them separate. Although I have to admit, when I was a kid the boy scouts at my school did way, way, cooler stuff than the girl scouts... Like we'd go on a four day canoeing/camping trip and they girl scouts would meet up somewhere and learn to knit for an hour... Probably just a lame girl scout leader though.
    So after all that about Brown-v-Board of Ed, you actually DO support 'separate-but-equal' on a case by case basis

    If the Girl-Scouts wanted to, they could do everything the Boy-Scouts did, and only the name would be different.

    Why a different name? (because you asked 'why not just call civil unions 'marriage' also if they have the same rights) '. Well, the name describes who's in it. "Marriage" is 2 people becoming one flesh, ie; raising children. Civil Union is merely 2 people sharing financial resources.

    They are different yet equal under the law, even if unequal in public opinion.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So after all that about Brown-v-Board of Ed, you actually DO support 'separate-but-equal' on a case by case basis

    If the Girl-Scouts wanted to, they could do everything the Boy-Scouts did, and only the name would be different.

    Why a different name? (because you asked 'why not just call civil unions 'marriage' also if they have the same rights) '. Well, the name describes who's in it. "Marriage" is 2 people becoming one flesh, ie; raising children. Civil Union is merely 2 people sharing financial resources.

    They are different yet equal under the law, even if unequal in public opinion.
    I explained the standard from Brown v Board of Ed. They ruled that separate was inherently unequal because there was a perception that a graduate from a black-only school was inferior to a graduate from a white-only school. So, the black students were being disadvantaged by the school segregation. I don't see how the same thing would apply to scouting.

    But, regardless, mostly I just don't really see anybody being hurt by the division between boy and girl scouts, where I do see that people would be hurt by school segregation or making a big deal about how gay people can only get 'civil unions' whereas straight people can 'marry'. Culturally the term marriage is endowed with all sorts of positive connotations and whatnot. Excluding gays from that seems discriminatory to me. That said, to me, the name is a relatively minor issue. If they got civil unions that were really exactly the same, I'd be thrilled.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I explained the standard from Brown v Board of Ed. They ruled that separate was inherently unequal because there was a perception that a graduate from a black-only school was inferior to a graduate from a white-only school. So, the black students were being disadvantaged by the school segregation. I don't see how the same thing would apply to scouting.
    Keep in mind that Brown only apples to education, and nothing else at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    But, regardless, mostly I just don't really see anybody being hurt by the division between boy and girl scouts, where I do see that people would be hurt by school segregation or making a big deal about how gay people can only get 'civil unions' whereas straight people can 'marry'. Culturally the term marriage is endowed with all sorts of positive connotations and whatnot. Excluding gays from that seems discriminatory to me. That said, to me, the name is a relatively minor issue. If they got civil unions that were really exactly the same, I'd be thrilled.
    Well see that's where I'm coming from: I don't see how childless couples are being harmed by the absence of protections meant for child-rearing couples.

    They can be forced to testify against each other? So can friends with benefits, common-law married couples and even monogamous engaged couples, so who cares.

    Most of the legal buffs are either myths (like hospital visitation) or easily bypassed (like inheritance) to matter at all.

    Also, since I don't support hetero-marriage for the sake of convenient legal buffs all in one package, I'm not about to support gay-marriage for the sake of automating a living-will/power-of-attorney/medical-proxy.

    The only things uniqu to "marriage" are protections for couples raising children under the "becoming one flesh" concept. Childless couples do not apply.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Keep in mind that Brown only apples to education, and nothing else at all.
    That's not true. That's not how precedent works. In the SCOTUS opinion in Brown they defined how the equal protection clause is to be applied. That's binding for any case that deals with equal protection.

    I don't agree with the other stuff you said, but we've been through that part already, so I think you know my take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    buffs
    You enhancement shammies just think buffs are everything...
    Last edited by teamosil; 10-18-09 at 11:46 PM.

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    Re: Is Gay Marriage a Constitutional Right in the U.S.?

    Gay marraige should be treated legally exactly the same as heterosexual marriage. If one is legal, so is the other. If one is consititutional, then so is the other. Logically, they are identical under every facet other than sexual preference, and since no law can be made denying a person sexually, racially, religiously, etc... then gay marraige is as legal and constitutional as hetero marriage.
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