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Who still likes Bush?

How do you feel about Bush?

  • He was a great president with the courage to fight for freedom and democracy!

    Votes: 9 13.8%

  • He did his best in the face of adverse circumstances

    Votes: 9 13.8%

  • He was mediocre

    Votes: 15 23.1%

  • He was below average in every way

    Votes: 18 27.7%

  • He should be tried and prosecuted for war crimes

    Votes: 12 18.5%

  • He is evil personified!

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • Total voters
    65
Fiddytree said:
Why not just say self-interest guides humanity instead of making it a silly right versus left argument when it's really the same thing.
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actually that isn't true in many cases-sucking down government entitlements might FEEL like self interest just as drinking yourself silly feels good In the long run it makes you a worthless dependent addict.

which is what the democratic party wants-they need millions of addicts who figure the GOP is going to cut off their dope
 
Like Zyphilin I'd say between mediocre and below average. I'm OK with his foreign policy for the most part. I'm a lukewarm Iraq War supporter. I believe that the initial decision to invade may have been a mistake, but that's will be a question for history. I'm glad that he decided to stay in an attempt to finish the job. While attacks may continue, the Iraqi government looks like it has a decent chance of maintaining reasonable stability for the forseeable future. Also overlooked, he, along with Clinton, fostered closer ties with India, which I believe will be useful in the future. I also think that he overeached Constitutionally with regards to the War on Terror. While I can understand some bypass of the Constitution in war time situations where national security is on the line, I believe that things like secret prisons and not trying a lot of terror suspects was a bit much. A bit of a mixed bag, but considering the situation, I think that he did an overall decent job.

Domestic programs is another story. I didn't care for much of his social issues like a proposed anti gay marriage amendment to the Constitution. He took education reform in the wrong direction with NCLB, toward more centralization. He tried to reform SS, but he put in a massive expansion to Medicare, something that we just can't afford. The bailouts were when I officially stopped consiering myself a Republican. He picked some great Supreme Court Justices in my opinion, but overall, I'm not a fan of most of his domestic policies. History will be the judge, but I think that he will be more favorably remembered than he is today.
 
TurtleDude said:
try actually arguing against the post rather than spewing nonsense.

what do you think Obama did when he said he was going to cut taxes for 95% even though almost half of those people don't even pay federal income taxes and then saying those who make over 250K a year were going to get soaked for the increased public spending Obama and his marxist lapdogs promised?

its buying the votes of the many using the money of the most productive minority

rebut that Obamunist:mrgreen:
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TurtleDude said:
dems are always substituting quantity for quality

its easy to get a majority when you buy their votes with the money of a hard working and productive minority

greed and hatred is what motivates the left. The right is about achievement and free enterprise-the left is about taking from that from those who cannot or will not achieve--or gaining power by catering to the parasite class
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So the hard working minority (would those be only Repubs by any chance?) provide the money for the rest of us socialist, blood sucking lay-abouts... who just drink wine & wait for our welfare checks?
Is this really the intelligent argument I'm supposed to argue against? (go straighten out the autographed photo of Rush you have hanging on your wall.....It's crooked)
 
Devil505 said:
So the hard working minority (would those be only Repubs by any chance?) provide the money for the rest of us socialist, blood sucking lay-abouts... who just drink wine & wait for our welfare checks?
Is this really the intelligent argument I'm supposed to argue against? (go straighten out the autographed photo of Rush you have hanging on your wall.....It's crooked)
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No, the argument there is stop voting to give our money away. It's not yours. Give your own and leave us alone.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

MyOwnDrum said:
A couple of coworkers said they still love Bush. The question here:

How do you currently feel about Bush?
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I'd like to see him tried for war crimes.
I think the world would have a lot more respect for us if we held him accountable for his actions.
Stopping the torture is great, and Obama deserves his Nobel Peace prize for that alone.
But Bush needs to be held accountable for the things he did.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

1069 said:
I'd like to see him tried for war crimes.
I think the world would have a lot more respect for us if we held him accountable for his actions.
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What did he supposedly do that he could be tried for war crimes?

And who gives a **** what the rest of the world thinks?
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

Devil505 said:
What did he supposedly do that he could be tried for war crimes?
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Tortured prisoners of war...which is a war crime
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False.


Devil505 said:
And who gives a **** what the rest of the world thinks?
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All real Americans should.
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BAH! All real Americans should? SO I am not a real American for having a different view? Bull****. Why should we let the popular opinion of the rest of the world inhibit taking right action in the world. The French and German governments were against our going to Iraq since it broke their rice bowls. They synergized with the left in building opposition for the war. The war was the right action to take and we did. Excellent.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

1069 said:
I'd like to see him tried for war crimes.
I think the world would have a lot more respect for us if we held him accountable for his actions.
Stopping the torture is great, and Obama deserves his Nobel Peace prize for that alone.
But Bush needs to be held accountable for the things he did.
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For what huh, if your going to make these type of statement you might want to get some fact also. But since you are saying he should be tried for War Crimes so should all of Congress who 1) Voted for the War 2) Help write and pass the Patriots Act including Mr. Obama

Also you really need to bone up on International Rules of War I suggest you go and read the Geneva Accords.

If you think Mr. W Bush should be held accountable for things then you should have no problem having Congress also be held to the same standers that includes all of the Dem Leadership and yes Mr. Obama.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

Scorpion89 said:
For what huh, if your going to make these type of statement you might want to get some fact also. But since you are saying he should be tried for War Crimes so should all of Congress who 1) Voted for the War 2) Help write and pass the Patriots Act including Mr. Obama
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Tried either here or internationally for war crimes that others have been tried & executed for...ie the admitted authorization of torture. Bush & Cheney have already (in essence) plead guilty to the charge...so the only thing left is sentencing.


Scorpion89 said:
If you think Mr. W Bush should be held accountable for things then you should have no problem having Congress also be held to the same standers that includes all of the Dem Leadership and yes Mr. Obama.
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Congress failed to do its "Due Diligence" by not verifying the lies it was told by Bush but that is not a crime.....Torture is.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

Devil505 said:
Tried either here or internationally for war crimes that others have been tried & executed for...ie the admitted authorization of torture. Bush & Cheney have already (in essence) plead guilty to the charge...so the only thing left is sentencing.
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What crimes? What torture? Which plea of guilt? It's not happening.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

reefedjib said:
What crimes? What torture? Which plea of guilt? It's not happening.
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Just heading out but I'll repeat this little logical syllogism for you since you're new:




Wateboarding is a war crime for which others have been tried...even by the U.S.

Bush & Cheney admitted to authorizing waterboarding of prisoners


THEREFORE....GW Bush & Dick Cheney are war criminals. Only thing missing is sentencing if they formally enter guilty pleas....... or a trial if they change & decide to try to deny it.
(this is something that Cheney can't get another deferment of & GW can't get his daddy to help him run away from)
 
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Bush and Cheney pleaded guilty to waterboarding three terror suspects.
 
At one point in time, I really really liked "W". His character, his politics and even the way he said Nuclear (Texan!).

However, right after he passed "McCain/Fiendgold" and said something to the effect that he expects the Supreme court to overturn it as it should be against the constitution - scared me. WTF was he doing signing anything that would be unconstitutional in his eyes? That was in 2002.

Then, the 2004 "options" were lessor evils and I felt I had no choice but to vote for W. Oh, I know there are alternatives now...but that is different story.

I do believe that he should be punished for war crimes. Obama is starting off on the same track.

IMO Bush is ranked right above Roosevelt for being the worst President for our economy and laws against our constitution.
 
Re: Who here still likes George W Bush?

Devil505 said:
Wateboarding is a war crime for which others have been tried...even by the U.S.
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Waterboarding is not a war crime. It is not torture. It is merely policy set forth in the Army Field Manual which Bush, as CIC, has every right to change at a moment's notice. No torture.
 
Waterboarding may cross the line of torture in some instances. During WWII the Japanese would force water do the throat of the prisoner in very painful process, and jump on the stomach repeatedly to force the water out so they could repeat the process several more times. Many American POWs died from the extremely painful process. There isn't evidence, as far as I'm aware of, that this method was ever used by the US on terror suspects. They put a damp rag on their face, and poured water so that the prisoner couldn't breath 20-30 seconds. A medical professional is present. Special forces recruits go through the same thing. I admit that I have never experienced this, and I probably do not want to. It may cross the line by a bit, but it's not exactly the thumb screws
 
It's all a moot point. The Geneva Conventions are explicit as to what considers an armed, military, force. Uniforms, ranks et al. It takes two to tango, to put it succinctly, and since the Taliban do not even hit one of those requirements they don't fall under those Conventions.

Further yet, it is common practice to allow the execution of spies or non-uniformed saboteurs, of which the Taliban do fill the requirements. Having them merely water boarded, is no problem at all.
 
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I suggest that it is pointless to let this thread turn into yet another waterboarding topic. There is plenty of evidence to make a case for wtareboarding being an internationally accepted form of torture depending on the specifics of how it is done....& since no one on this forum was present at any waterboardings, we have no way of verifying or disclaiming any such facts.
My belief is that new evidence will be coming out, while Obama is still in office...that will conclusively prove that some U.S. prisoners were tortured so aggressively that it led to their deaths. (most probably by CIA contractors...not agents)
If & when such info is uncovered & released (most probably by Sen. Feinstein's Senate committee) the point will no longer be debatable & a war crimes trial will then be the obvious remedy.

Until such time, all we can accomplish here is just more speculation.


Geneva conventions are not the only law/treaty violations a war criminal can be prosecuted for & the murder of a prisoner ca not be justified or excused by any civilized society. (I don't care if we charge Bush & Cheney with conspiracy to commit murder....They committed crime & need to be held accountable...........unless we charge Lyndie English again...as the mastermind like we did with Abu Gareb)
 
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Devil505 said:
I suggest that it is pointless to let this thread turn into yet another waterboarding topic. There is plenty of evidence to make a case for wtareboarding being an internationally accepted form of torture depending on the specifics of how it is done....& since no one on this forum was present at any waterboardings, we have no way of verifying or disclaiming any such facts.
My belief is that new evidence will be coming out, while Obama is still in office...that will conclusively prove that some U.S. prisoners were tortured so aggressively that it led to their deaths. (most probably by CIA contractors...not agents)
If & when such info is uncovered & released (most probably by Sen. Feinstein's Senate committee) the point will no longer be debatable & a war crimes trial will then be the obvious remedy.

Until such time, all we can accomplish here is just more speculation.


Geneva conventions are not the only law/treaty violations a war criminal can be prosecuted for & the murder of a prisoner ca not be justified or excused by any civilized society. (I don't care if we charge Bush & Cheney with conspiracy to commit murder....They committed crime & need to be held accountable...........unless we charge Lyndie English again...as the mastermind like we did with Abu Gareb)
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I am simply going off of the availible evidence. Was more doen, maybe, but all your side has now is speculation
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
I am simply going off of the availible evidence. Was more doen, maybe, but all your side has now is speculation
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Evidence?....At this point not conclusive
Speculation?.....far stronger than mere speulation.

A Reporter at Large: A Deadly Interrogation : The New Yorker
this is just one article..Any simple Google search will provide many more leads.

The fact that no hard evidence has arisen to this point does not preclude its existence. Many people have good reason for trying to keep a lid on it.
Does anyone here really doubt that some very sinister activities were carried out by the Bush Administration? (Even with good intentions, crimes are still crimes)
 
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Devil505 said:
Evidence?....At this point not conclusive
Speculation?.....far stronger than mere speulation.

A Reporter at Large: A Deadly Interrogation : The New Yorker
this is just one article..Any simple Google search will provide many more leads.

The fact that no hard evidence has arisen to this point does not preclude its existence. Many people have good reason for trying to keep a lid on it.
Does anyone here really doubt that some very sinister activities were carried out by the Bush Administration? (Even with good intentions, crimes are still crimes)
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Your link doesn't work. Even ignoring the points made about the Geneva Convention, if it cannot be conclusively shown that a crime has been commited, then one can't assume that it has occured
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Your link doesn't work. Even ignoring the points made about the Geneva Convention, if it cannot be conclusively shown that a crime has been commited, then one can't assume that it has occured
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I think the evidence..... as it stands right now is enough to prove a crime was committed. Further evidence is what would solidify the gravity of the crimes & the need for prosecution. (to prove a crime I mean simply convincing a jury that a crime has been committed.....& who committed it.(which is all our legal system ever needs to do)
 
Devil505 said:
I think the evidence..... as it stands right now is enough to prove a crime was committed. Further evidence is what would solidify the gravity of the crimes & the need for prosecution. (to prove a crime I mean simply convincing a jury that a crime has been committed.....& who committed it.(which is all our legal system ever needs to do)
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There was already widespread abuse at Abu Ghraib at this time. Evidence that his homocide was sanctioned by the Administration isn't conclusive.
 
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