View Poll Results: Does the original intent still matter when discussing the Constitution?

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  • Yes. We should strictly follow both the letter and spirit of the original intent.

    28 35.90%
  • Yes. We should follow the original principles and then apply them as new issues arise.

    21 26.92%
  • Yes. The original intent of the Constition is important, but other factors must be considered.

    15 19.23%
  • No. The Constitution is a guiding set of principles that we can interrpret to fit our current needs.

    10 12.82%
  • Other

    4 5.13%
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Thread: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

  1. #271
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Clearly.
    And one has to wonder -- why?
    If their ideas are SO good, they should not have any trouble mustering the support necessary to make the change.
    This is flawed on two levels. The first that a good idea is necessarily popular with people in Congress. And second that a good idea is popular with the general population. Ending slavery was a good idea. However highly unpopular with a large number of states. So was giving women the right to vote. A highly unpopular idea. A good idea does not depend on popularity.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ending slavery was a good idea.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion]Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    So was giving women the right to vote.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion]Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

  3. #273
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're referring to "the Framers' ideas" as though they were all a monolithic entity. And not only that, but you cite the MINORITY view as representative of them all. Obviously if "the Framers" thought a Bill of Rights was undesirable, it wouldn't exist in the first place. The fact is that some of them wanted a Bill of Rights, some of them didn't, and the ones who wanted it won that battle.

    This is the problem with originalist interpretations of the Constitution. It assumes knowledge of what the writers intended, and applies that intent to EVERYONE who ratified the Constitution.
    That's far superior than the notion that it means whatever you want it to mean, which is the central tenet of liberalism.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  4. #274
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Wow your complete inability to grasp the entire point of that post is almost retarded. Did you read the first sentence? But since you did bring them up :

    What did I say? :

    The first that a good idea is necessarily popular with people in Congress
    Your source :

    On January 9, 1918, President Woodrow Wilson announced his support of the amendment. The next day, the House of Representatives narrowly passed the amendment, but the Senate refused to debate it until October. When the Senate voted on the Amendment in October, it failed by three votes.[1]

    In response, the National Woman's Party urged citizens to vote against anti-suffrage Senators up for reelection in the 1918 midterm elections. Following those elections, most members of Congress were pro-suffrage. On May 21, 1919, the House of Representatives passed the amendment by a vote of 304 to 89 and the Senate followed suit on June 4, by a vote of 56 to 25.[2]

    On August 18, 1920, the Tennessee General Assembly, by a one-vote margin became the thirty-sixth state legislature to ratify the Nineteenth Amendment, making it a part of the U.S. Constitution. On August 26, 1920, Secretary of State Bainbridge Colby certified the amendment's adoption
    This all supports my statement that a 'good idea' is not necessarily one that is popularly supported. Specially when it's getting passed mostly on 1-3 vote margins.

    As far as slavery goes, we had to have a civil war before the 13th amendment was thought of and passed. If that doesn't say that it would have never been added to the constitution because it would have become immediately unpopular with the citizens of some parts of the U.S. I don't know what should. Do you think a 13th amendment would have been possible without a civil war?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-28-09 at 07:26 AM.
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  5. #275
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Wow your complete inability to grasp the entire point of that post is almost retarded. Did you read the first sentence? But since you did bring them up :

    What did I say? :



    Your source :



    This all supports my statement that a 'good idea' is not necessarily one that is popularly supported. Specially when it's getting passed mostly on 1-3 vote margins.

    As far as slavery goes, we had to have a civil war before the 13th amendment was thought of and passed. If that doesn't say that it would have never been added to the constitution because it would have become immediately unpopular with the citizens of some parts of the U.S. I don't know what should. Do you think a 13th amendment would have been possible without a civil war?
    The Constitution is what it is, get over yourself. It does not mean what you wished it would mean either.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #276
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is flawed on two levels. The first that a good idea is necessarily popular with people in Congress. And second that a good idea is popular with the general population. Ending slavery was a good idea. However highly unpopular with a large number of states. So was giving women the right to vote. A highly unpopular idea. A good idea does not depend on popularity.
    Odd, given your statement, above, that both of the 'good ideas' that you mention were amended into the Constitution.

  7. #277
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Wow your complete inability to grasp the entire point of that post is almost retarded.
    That's because you failed to make a point. You held up women's suffrage and the abolition of slavery as objectively good ideas (which they are) that might not come to fruition if left up to popular sentiment or legislative action despite the fact that both of them were addressed via the Amendment process.

  8. #278
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's far superior than the notion that it means whatever you want it to mean, which is the central tenet of liberalism.
    Actually it's the same. You just claim that what YOU want the Constitution to mean, was what the Founding Fathers wanted the Constitution to mean without any evidence. And you think that an original interpretation is best solely because it fits the best with what YOU want the Constitution to mean.

    You do not have a monopoly on the "correct" interpretation of the Constitution, nor do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Founding Fathers intended for us to use THEIR interpretation of the Constitution for all eternity.
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  9. #279
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Odd, given your statement, above, that both of the 'good ideas' that you mention were amended into the Constitution.
    76 and 131 years later, yes...
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  10. #280
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    76 and 131 years later, yes...
    That's relevant.... how?

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