View Poll Results: Does the original intent still matter when discussing the Constitution?

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  • Yes. We should strictly follow both the letter and spirit of the original intent.

    28 35.90%
  • Yes. We should follow the original principles and then apply them as new issues arise.

    21 26.92%
  • Yes. The original intent of the Constition is important, but other factors must be considered.

    15 19.23%
  • No. The Constitution is a guiding set of principles that we can interrpret to fit our current needs.

    10 12.82%
  • Other

    4 5.13%
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Thread: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

  1. #131
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Furthermore, whether or not people "hold the president accountable for appointing crap justices" does not change the fact that our government would still be based on the world of 1789, if you want to preserve the cumbersome amendment process AND use an originalist interpretation.
    What, in your estimation, is different about the world of today which makes the originalist view of the Constitution unworkable?
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  2. #132
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's supposed to be difficult enough that people don't change it for stupid reasons based on whatever direction the wind is currently blowing. But I highly doubt the Founding Fathers predicted that we would use their Constitution for 220 years and only change it 17 times.
    Translation:
    It should be easy to change when its a change I support, and hard to change when its something I poopse.


  3. #133
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I disagree that the amendment process is overly cumbersome, at least to the point where it makes passing amendments impossible. The last major amendment passed was probably the 22nd (though the 24th was also pretty important, but it dealt with efforts to circumvent the 15th, so it wasn't a new issue). And its not surprising there weren't any major changes early on in our nation's history since the Constitution was a new document. So from 1865 to 1951, a timespan of 86 years, we passed ten amendments. That's an average of better than one per decade. The rate improves if you add in the last 5 "minor" amendments. We get 15 amendements in 127 years (1865 - 1992) During that time span, our nation was also growing. In 1865 there were 36 states. In 1951 there were 48 states.

    It is difficult to pass an amendment, but not impossibly so. History shows that. The reason we don't have more amendments is activist courts have usurped the power that was given to the people through the amendment proceedure and taken it for themselves through activist rulings that ignore the intent of the Constitution.
    Well, let's take a look at all the amendments passed since the Bill of Rights was enacted. How many of them would you consider to be major changes? By my (admittedly subjective) count, the major changes were Amendments #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, and #19. That's only six significant changes to the way our government fundamentally operates since it was created...and three of those six were passed at the barrel of a gun. Most of the other amendments have just been tweaks around the edges...and there aren't even very many of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown
    I will say, I'm not entirely opposed to making amendments slightly easier to pass, but I cannot agree that the current process is cumbersome to the point of impossible.
    Right now the procedure is for 2/3 of each house of Congress to vote for an amendment, then for 3/4 of all state legislatures to ratify it. This is far, far too strict IMO.

    I would be more inclined to support something along the lines of a 2/3 majority in each house of Congress and a simple majority of state legislatures. That seems much more reasonable.
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  4. #134
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    What's the point of having a Constitution if we don't follow it in letter and spirit?

  5. #135
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What's the point of having a Constitution if we don't follow it in letter and spirit?
    No reason whatsoever, we could all just run around and do what we want. Like maybe kill people at random, I mean what the hell it's not murder if I say it isn't.
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  6. #136
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Society has changed drastically since the 1700s, so I voted that other factors must also be considered. After all, the original intent was supportive of all sorts of practices (such as human slavery) that are now considered outrageous.
    Life, liberty, and property are timeless concepts, whether it's 1776 or 2009.

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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Life, liberty, and property are timeless concepts, whether it's 1776 or 2009.
    Hell no, the librules want a living constitution, one that everyone can interpret the way they want. Let's give it to them. I mean we own all the guns, right?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #138
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Life, liberty, and property are timeless concepts, whether it's 1776 or 2009.
    That is exactly what they want to change.

  9. #139
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What, in your estimation, is different about the world of today which makes the originalist view of the Constitution unworkable?
    Well for one thing, that old document was written by white, rich, bigotted, homophobes who beat slaves and plotted against the crown. Why should we follow them?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #140
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    In another thread, I saw someone accuse libertarians of always holding up the oringial intent of the Constitution as something that should be followed, but we don't say why original intent is the proper way to view the Constitution. So I thought it would make a good poll and possibly a good discussion.

    So does the original intent of the founding father's matter anymore? Or has the world moved so far beyond the late 18th century that what the founding father's thought and meant when writing the Constitution is no longer worth considering? Or is it somewhere in the middle?
    Of course is does.

    But reading the 2nd amendment through a keyhole is asinine.

    The 1st amendment doesn't mention kiddie porn.

    The 2nd amendment doesn't mention fully-automatic weapons.

    So, Justice Psychoclown, explain how states can ban kiddie porn and not weapons they deem contrary to public safety.

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