View Poll Results: Does the original intent still matter when discussing the Constitution?

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  • Yes. We should strictly follow both the letter and spirit of the original intent.

    28 35.90%
  • Yes. We should follow the original principles and then apply them as new issues arise.

    21 26.92%
  • Yes. The original intent of the Constition is important, but other factors must be considered.

    15 19.23%
  • No. The Constitution is a guiding set of principles that we can interrpret to fit our current needs.

    10 12.82%
  • Other

    4 5.13%
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Thread: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

  1. #101
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually the US is not at the top of the list by either of those measures...but regardless, there are lots of free/prosperous countries with constitutions that are much easier to amend. Hell, Israel and the UK don't even have constitutions at all.
    You aren't helping your argument at all.

  2. #102
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Something that wasn't procedural, like Congressional raises, or the Order of Succession.

    Well, I need to do some things before my date with the lovely Rose, so I'll catch you guys later
    After more than 200 years, that's it?

    I would be for an amendment fixing the system for congressional raises but I definitely don't think that's a strong enough reason to consider the constitution outdated or ineffective.


    take good care of rose.

  3. #103
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Dude, I posted more in that post that I thought was responding to your position. Did you not read it or something?
    See above

  4. #104
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Important to you, or important to me? The amendment process is designed to ensure that most agree so changes can't be made arbitrarily on a whim.

    I asked earlier what you thought needed to be fixed with the constitution as-is...what do you feel needs to be changed right now?
    I can think of many things that need to be changed (or at least codified):

    1. Our system for electing a president
    2. A constitutional guarantee of the right to privacy
    3. A redefinition of the scope of congressional power
    4. A redefinition of how DC is governed (preferably the same as a state)
    5. Term limits for congressmen and Supreme Court justices
    6. The Equal Rights Amendment
    7. A clarification that all "military actions" OR wars must be declared by Congress, not the President
    8. A change to the constitutional amendment process itself

    Those are just a few of my suggestions. I'm sure many people have their own lists. But alas, the constitutional amendment process is just too cumbersome and difficult in today's world, which the Founding Fathers never anticipated. Therefore we cannot use an original intent. Our government would simply not function properly if we kept a very difficult amendment process AND relied on original intent, because we'd end up with a government that was very much like what they had in 1789...hardly a good model for today's world.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-14-09 at 05:35 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I generally just respond to him until he starts pulling that crap, then ignore him and talk with people who are actually debating intelligently.
    This fully explains why you never talk to yourself...

  6. #106
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Sure it is, unless you go by something as biased against the US as the UN is, then of course Cuba has more freedom and a better medical system.
    Well whether the US is #1 or #12 or #30 in a certain category is largely irrelevant. The point is that there are plenty of free and prosperous countries that don't have cumbersome amendment processes.
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  7. #107
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I can think of many things that need to be changed (or at least codified):

    1. Our system for electing a president
    2. A constitutional guarantee of the right to privacy
    3. A redefinition of the scope of congressional power
    4. A redefinition of how DC is governed (preferably the same as a state)
    5. Term limits for congressmen and Supreme Court justices
    6. The Equal Rights Amendment
    7. A change to the constitutional amendment process itself

    Those are just a few of my suggestions. I'm sure many people have their own lists. But alas, the constitutional amendment process is just too cumbersome and difficult in today's world, which the Founding Fathers never anticipated. Therefore we cannot use an original intent. Our government would simply not function properly if we kept a very difficult amendment process AND relied on original intent, because we'd end up with a government that was very much like what they had in 1789...hardly a good model for today's world.
    In some cases of some I am with you, but in others I am glad the process is cumbersome for you.

    You still have a chance of advocating for a change, but the benefit of the doubt is with me because if a system is disrupted, it has to be for a good reason--as the disruption may prove destructive.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well whether the US is #1 or #12 or #30 in a certain category is largely irrelevant.
    Then why were you arguing it?
    The point is that there are plenty of free and prosperous countries that don't have cumbersome amendment processes.
    Which doesn't advance your arguement either. There is an old saying that is also very true.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  9. #109
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Then why were you arguing it?
    YOU were the one who brought up the US being the freest, most prosperous, best in bed, and yada-yada of any nation in the world. Not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch
    Which doesn't advance your arguement either. There is an old saying that is also very true.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    So then you're saying that as long as the US is free and prosperous, there is no need to make any changes to anything. Got it.
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  10. #110
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    Re: The Constitution: Does Original Intent Still Matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    YOU were the one who brought up the US being the freest, most prosperous, best in bed, and yada-yada of any nation in the world. Not me.
    True, I said that... at which time you started arguing about it, then when I refuted you, you said it didn't mater anyway, .... see?



    So then you're saying that as long as the US is free and prosperous, there is no need to make any changes to anything. Got it.
    Get enough people behind the changes you want and you are good to go.... that's how our constitution works.

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