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Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

  • Yes. The rule against weapons on campus needs to be enforced! What sort of message does that send?

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • He should have gotten less time since it wasn't a very deadly weapon and his intent was not violent

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • I'm not sure about this one...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • He should have had a warning.

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • What is wrong with school official these days? Seriously, this is ridiculous!

    Votes: 31 81.6%
  • Total voters
    38
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

American said:
I don't think that's the issue, I think a just outcome is the purpose. The policy is for safety, and since the Scout clearly demonstrated a concern for safety, he fulfilled the intent of the policy.
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I'm not saying I disagree with you because I don't think the punishment was appropriate either.

However, I do think that some form of punishment must be given. Five days suspension was too much. One day suspension would have been enough, if suspension was the minimum for such a violation. If the minimum was detention, then I believe detention would have been sufficient in this case.

There needs to be some sort of punishment because the eagle scout did violate a rule.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Students may be subject to disciplinary action....
3. Possessing a weapon. Authorized law enforcement officials are the only persons permitted to have a weapon in their possession while on school property or at a school function.
4. Displaying what appears to be a weapon.
5. Threatening to use any weapon.
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There is no requirement to be punished by the school. What is a weapon is not specifically defined, however law enforcement personnel carry fire arms. Apparently the scout didn't not consider a 2" pocket knife to be a weapon in the traditional sense likely envision in school policy. And increase from 5 days to 20 days is not only unjust, it's unreasonable under any perspective.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

They are worried about a little knife in a car, because "a student could possibily get stabbed."

But think about it.... Who needs a knife to stab another student when someone can sharpen a pentech? I am willing to bet there are many pencil stabbings every year. Man, i cannot wait until it is illegal to bring a pen and pencil to school:crazy3: I predict it will happen before i am 50....
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

How about the 8yo?

If the pocket knife was a danger how about the tire irons and the gasoline.

Our entire education system has gone to liberal lala land. It's no wonder they make such magnificent decisions on the education of our children.

HOME SCHOOL for the good of your children and your country people!
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

LowRevs said:
How about the 8yo?

If the pocket knife was a danger how about the tire irons and the gasoline.

Our entire education system has gone to liberal lala land. It's no wonder they make such magnificent decisions on the education of our children.

HOME SCHOOL for the good of your children and your country people!
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Taking it even one step further, how about vehicles themselves:lol: Something tells me that when a student is about to go ape****, anything can be used as a weapon.

Offensive linemen from Lakeland Florida should be banned from school because they could kill a teacher with one hand.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

American said:
There is no requirement to be punished by the school.
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Of course there is! If a student breaks a rule, and if caught by any authority on campus, the student will suffer the consequences. You can't expect nothing to happen when rules are broken? What would be the purpose of having the rules in the first place??

What is a weapon is not specifically defined, however law enforcement personnel carry fire arms. Apparently the scout didn't not consider a 2" pocket knife to be a weapon in the traditional sense likely envision in school policy. And increase from 5 days to 20 days is not only unjust, it's unreasonable under any perspective.
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The student would not be the appropriate one to interpret what a "weapon" is. The definition of "weapon" is and should be written within the school policy, and knives are considered weapons in most, if not all, school districts.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

It was probably a good idea to have a survival kit and a knife. No survival kit is complete without something that one could use to cut something. The ruling was incredibly idiotic. Zero tolerance is just another insulation against frivolous lawsuits as stated before, another reason why we need lawsuit reform. There is no excuse for lack of common sense when punishing someone.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

One size fits all policies like zero tolerance merely create more problems than they solve by treating every situation the same when they clearly often are not. It isn't fair, because it completely ignores the realities of each situation.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Only a few years out of highschool myself, I can say that nothing bred more contempt for authority that zero-tolerance policies. By making completely innocent and reasonable actions worthy of punishment, everyone acts like a criminal. Knowing that good intention and common sense aren't a defense makes everyone afraid. Let us suppose your mom made some pie for the school bake sale, and thoughtfully included a serving knife to cut the pie. When you bring it to school, you just broke the rules. How can even a kid who wants to follow the rules defend against that?
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Of course there is! If a student breaks a rule, and if caught by any authority on campus, the student will suffer the consequences. You can't expect nothing to happen when rules are broken? What would be the purpose of having the rules in the first place??
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The problem is that rules are utterly stupid unfair and unreasonable. While perhaps not the fault of those who are required to carry them out, it is utterly the fault of the morally bankrupt idiot who created them in the first place. This eagle scout did nothing wrong, and deserves no punishment. The system needs to be changed so it doesn't happen again.


The student would not be the appropriate one to interpret what a "weapon" is. The definition of "weapon" is and should be written within the school policy, and knives are considered weapons in most, if not all, school districts.
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Except that not all knives are weapons. A pocket knife, dinner knife or butter knife is a tool not a weapon. They are not designed for hurting people, and are very inefficient means of causing harm. Having a policy in which students are punished for possessing them is unacceptable.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Lightdemon said:
Of course there is! If a student breaks a rule, and if caught by any authority on campus, the student will suffer the consequences. You can't expect nothing to happen when rules are broken? What would be the purpose of having the rules in the first place??



The student would not be the appropriate one to interpret what a "weapon" is. The definition of "weapon" is and should be written within the school policy, and knives are considered weapons in most, if not all, school districts.
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So what you want is to make an example out of him? Tell me why that is? Are you a Boy Scout or have you had anything to do with them?
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Lightdemon said:
Another reason for having a zero-tolerance policy is to protect students from discrimination (by the administrators who are assigning the punishments).
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Yeah, this kid was really protected by the zero-tolerance policy. :roll:
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

If it was locked in his car, then it should not have been a problem.

Zero tolerance is nothing but a policy of over reaction.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

American said:
So what you want is to make an example out of him? Tell me why that is? Are you a Boy Scout or have you had anything to do with them?
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No, what I'm saying is that if there are rules, there need to be consequences. If there are no consequences, then there might as well be no rules. If there are no consequences, then breaking or following rules wouldn't matter. Rules would have no meaning, and therefore become useless.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

rathi said:
The problem is that rules are utterly stupid unfair and unreasonable. While perhaps not the fault of those who are required to carry them out, it is utterly the fault of the morally bankrupt idiot who created them in the first place. This eagle scout did nothing wrong, and deserves no punishment. The system needs to be changed so it doesn't happen again.
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I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but you have to choose your poison. :shrug:

Except that not all knives are weapons. A pocket knife, dinner knife or butter knife is a tool not a weapon. They are not designed for hurting people, and are very inefficient means of causing harm. Having a policy in which students are punished for possessing them is unacceptable.
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But bringing any sort of knife to school would be inappropriate regardless. If we are looking at a normal day at school for the average student, never will they ever need a pocket knife. So why bring one? Can you show me a scenario in which a student may need to use a pocket knife during school?

And while pocket knives are not designed to be used as weapons, they can be. As well as scissors, pencils and what have you. But scissors and pencils have a place on campus and in the classroom, and therefore it is reasonable to have these tools on campus since it is necessary in most classes. What activity would a pocket knife be used on campus, where a pair scissors could not achieve? What class would necessitate a pocket knife?

I don't see a reason to bring a pocket knife to school, at all. It shouldn't be on campus anyway, it serves no purpose. It only brings in an unneeded risk.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Psychoclown said:
Yeah, this kid was really protected by the zero-tolerance policy. :roll:
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Well, you can't say that he was a victim of discrimination. :shrug:
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

rathi said:
Only a few years out of highschool myself, I can say that nothing bred more contempt for authority that zero-tolerance policies. By making completely innocent and reasonable actions worthy of punishment, everyone acts like a criminal. Knowing that good intention and common sense aren't a defense makes everyone afraid. Let us suppose your mom made some pie for the school bake sale, and thoughtfully included a serving knife to cut the pie. When you bring it to school, you just broke the rules. How can even a kid who wants to follow the rules defend against that?
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It seems to me that the only defense you're setting up is ignorance of the rules. If you're a student who want to follow the rules, then you ought to already know that knives are not allowed on campus. Should've known better. :neutral:
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Lightdemon said:
It seems to me that the only defense you're setting up is ignorance of the rules. If you're a student who want to follow the rules, then you ought to already know that knives are not allowed on campus. Should've known better. :neutral:
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When rules are made that ignore "intent" they are worthless to begin with and breed contempt for the law or rules, nothing more.
 
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Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Stupid as hell!
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but you have to choose your poison.
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Except your poison is far worse. There is no excuse to throw away common sense when delivering punishments, especially as a matter of policy.

But bringing any sort of knife to school would be inappropriate regardless. If we are looking at a normal day at school for the average student, never will they ever need a pocket knife. So why bring one? Can you show me a scenario in which a student may need to use a pocket knife during school?
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I would have used a swiss army knife when replacing computer hardware. I would have used bread knives or dinner knives to cut food. I would have used an exacto knife to cut things exactly when making posters. A pocket knife is an incredibly versatile tool that is useful for an uncountable number of tasks.

And while pocket knives are not designed to be used as weapons, they can be.
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How many kids have been killed by pocketknives in the last year? The fact is a pocketknife is both a useful tool and a terrible weapon. Banning them is stupid enough, but levying a serious punishment like a suspension is unacceptable. They should have just taken the knife away and returned it to him after school.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

It seems to me that the only defense you're setting up is ignorance of the rules. If you're a student who want to follow the rules, then you ought to already know that knives are not allowed on campus. Should've known better.
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Except you get screwed over for honest and completely understandable mistakes. Our eagle scout probably used his pocket knife for all kinds of scouting activities, so he would keep one in his car. Normally, lets suppose he knows about the rules and takes it out before he goes to school. However, even if he is 99% good about remembering to take it out, statistically he going to forget at least once during his time in school, and get suspended.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

rathi said:
Except your poison is far worse. There is no excuse to throw away common sense when delivering punishments, especially as a matter of policy.
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Actually I don't think either one is worse off than the other. They're both bad equally. And again, I acknowledge the faults, I'm not saying you're wrong.

I would have used a swiss army knife when replacing computer hardware.
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Why would a student be replacing hardware? To my knowledge no computer class would require this. Also to my knowledge, because of the history of electronic theft in my district, all computer hardware is locked inside specifically to prevent student access. I imagine that many school districts have done the same.

I would have used bread knives or dinner knives to cut food.
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School cafeterias already provide that, as well as sporks. They typically come in neat little packages, even including a piece of napkin. The only thing is that it's plastic.

I would have used an exacto knife to cut things exactly when making posters.
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Something that scissors can achieve.

A pocket knife is an incredibly versatile tool that is useful for an uncountable number of tasks.
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That it is, but other more appropriate tools for a school setting may take it place, thus eliminating an unneeded risk.

How many kids have been killed by pocketknives in the last year? The fact is a pocketknife is both a useful tool and a terrible weapon. Banning them is stupid enough, but levying a serious punishment like a suspension is unacceptable. They should have just taken the knife away and returned it to him after school.
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I think I would have to choose to err on the side of precaution. But I agree, the suspension in this particular case was heavy handed. At the same time though, I understand why punishment must be given.
 
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Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

rathi said:
Except you get screwed over for honest and completely understandable mistakes. Our eagle scout probably used his pocket knife for all kinds of scouting activities, so he would keep one in his car. Normally, lets suppose he knows about the rules and takes it out before he goes to school. However, even if he is 99% good about remembering to take it out, statistically he going to forget at least once during his time in school, and get suspended.
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So would you want the schools to choose convenience for the student over their safety?

And let me just set this straight, because it seems that everyone is thinking that I'm supporting this school's decision, I'm not. I think the punishment is way too harsh, it doesn't make any sense. However, I do support the zero-tolerance policy. I do not want any weapons on campus if it can be prevented. The level of punishment has to be determined, at the same time a minimum level of punishment (perhaps 1-2 day suspension) must be set.
 
Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Blackdog said:
When rules are made that ignore "intent" they are worthless to begin with and breed contempt for the law or rules, nothing more.
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I don't think the rules ignored intent, at all. I imagine if the school found that the student intended to use the pocket knife to injure another student, the school would be expelling the eagle scout instead of just issuing a suspension.

I think that the school may have considered intent and was trying to give the eagle scout the minimum punishment, which could have been the 20 some odd days. I don't know, it varies from district to district, state to state.
 
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Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

Why would a student be replacing hardware? To my knowledge no computer class would require this. Also to my knowledge, because of the history of electronic theft in my district, all computer hardware is locked inside specifically to prevent student access. I imagine that many school districts have done the same.
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When I was a TA, I fixed my teachers classroom computer after some components failed.

School cafeterias already provide that, as well as sporks. They typically come in neat little packages, even including a piece of napkin. The only thing is that it's plastic.
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Ever tired to cut real bread with one of those knives? Or hard cheese?

Something that scissors can achieve.
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Unless the backing material is something thick like cardboard.

That it is, but other more appropriate tools for a school setting may take it place, thus eliminating an unneeded risk.
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What risk? You haven't demonstrated the danger of pocket knives.

I think I would have to choose to err on the side of precaution.
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So you have nothing.
 
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