View Poll Results: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

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  • Yes. The rule against weapons on campus needs to be enforced! What sort of message does that send?

    3 4.84%
  • He should have gotten less time since it wasn't a very deadly weapon and his intent was not violent

    3 4.84%
  • I'm not sure about this one...

    0 0%
  • He should have had a warning.

    7 11.29%
  • What is wrong with school official these days? Seriously, this is ridiculous!

    49 79.03%
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Thread: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Anything can be used as a weapon. I don't have to demonstrate specifically how a pocket knife can be a danger because damn near everything can be a weapon. What I said was this: I do not want any weapons on campus if it can be prevented.

    A pair of scissors can be used as a weapon, but because classrooms use scissors on a regular basis, it is reasonable to have scissors on campus, so it cannot be prevented. Knives are not the same.
    Does anyone else see the irony here?

    A 2" pocket knife vs 3" to 6" scissors? The whole school should be suspended then because of "zero tolerance" oh wait, they are making an exception?

    Again I say let the punishment fit the crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #82
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Sigh....I was giving you a hypothetical...
    That had nothing to do with what I was saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I think you've misread what I posted...
    "I think that the school may have considered intent and was trying to give the eagle scout the minimum punishment, which could have been the 20 some odd days. I don't know, it varies from district to district, state to state. - Lightdemon

    Nope nail hit firmly by me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #83
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Does anyone else see the irony here?

    A 2" pocket knife vs 3" to 6" scissors? The whole school should be suspended then because of "zero tolerance" oh wait, they are making an exception?

    Again I say let the punishment fit the crime.
    Hey, I think the punishment should fit the crime too. That's what I've been saying all along!

    The only difference between me and you (and a few others) is that I don't think zero-tolerance policy are always bad. It has it's faults, yes, but it also has it uses as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Hey, I think the punishment should fit the crime too. That's what I've been saying all along!

    The only difference between me and you (and a few others) is that I don't think zero-tolerance policy are always bad. It has it's faults, yes, but it also has it uses as well.
    I disagree, zero tolerance has no use in a civilized society. If you believe the punishment should fit the crime then zero tolerance should make no sense to you either. Yet you try and justify it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That had nothing to do with what I was saying.
    You said that the rule was ignoring intent, i showed that it was not ignored. If indeed intent was found, then the student would have been expelled. Since intent was not found, the student will now have to receive the minimum punishment, which is likely to be the 20 days.

    In this explanation, intent was NOT ignored.

    "I think that the school may have considered intent and was trying to give the eagle scout the minimum punishment, which could have been the 20 some odd days. I don't know, it varies from district to district, state to state. - Lightdemon

    Nope nail hit firmly by me.
    I think you may be confused...
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  6. #86
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I disagree, zero tolerance has no use in a civilized society. If you believe the punishment should fit the crime then zero tolerance should make no sense to you either. Yet you try and justify it?
    In one of your previous posts you used this as one of your examples:

    For example...

    Man is drunk and accidentally walks into the wrong house (happens quite a bit) and is charged with criminal trespass, not burglary. Because no intent to commit a crime existed.

    Accidents happen and the school should recognize this and act accordingly.

    Zero tolerance is moronic at best. Let the punishment fit the crime.
    The drunk man broken a law, despite having no intent to cause harm. Yet legally he will be punished, right? You don't have a problem with that do you?

    This is the same for the eagle scout, is it not?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  7. #87
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    You said that the rule was ignoring intent, i showed that it was not ignored.
    I said zero tolerance ignores intent.

    You showed a hypothetical that had nothing to do with the facts of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    If indeed intent was found, then the student would have been expelled. Since intent was not found, the student will now have to receive the minimum punishment, which is likely to be the 20 days.
    What part of 20 days is not the minimum for anything are you missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    In this explanation, intent was NOT ignored.
    According to whom? In the story it says nothing but "zero tolerance" so where are you getting this information? Or are you making it up?

    If he had got a 2 or 3 day suspension you mite have had a point. 20 days is ridicules for having a pocket knife locked in your ****ing car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I think you may be confused...
    Keep dreaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    In one of your previous posts you used this as one of your examples:

    The drunk man broken a law, despite having no intent to cause harm. Yet legally he will be punished, right? You don't have a problem with that do you?

    This is the same for the eagle scout, is it not?
    Wow you just don't get it.

    Criminal trespass is a low misdemeanor involving no jail time 90% of the time. Even if it does it is less than a year. Burglary can be a felony and involve up to 10 years in prison.

    This is not about getting punished. It is about the punishment fitting the crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #89
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I said zero tolerance ignores intent.
    Then why haven't the student been expelled?

    The level of punishment denotes the level of offense. It's obvious the level of offense is minimal, and therefore did not require expulsion.

    You showed a hypothetical that had nothing to do with the facts of the story.
    But you, nor I, know anything about what the administrators are discussing. I don't know what facts you are using to determine that intent was not considered. All I have is speculation, and as far as I can tell, so are you.

    What part of 20 days is not the minimum for anything are you missing?
    Where does it say that it's not the minimum?

    According to whom? In the story it says nothing but "zero tolerance" so where are you getting this information? Or are you making it up?
    Exactly, so how do you know intent was ignored? If the student was given the minimum punishment, then I think they've considered the intent. If 20 days is the minimum, then I think the punishment, while being harsh, is as best as it's going to get for the time being (until they reform it).
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Wow you just don't get it.

    Criminal trespass is a low misdemeanor involving no jail time 90% of the time. Even if it does it is less than a year. Burglary can be a felony and involve up to 10 years in prison.
    Right, so we're talking about the level of punishment.

    If the 20 days was the minimum, then I think the action taken was the most appropriate action to take, albeit still too harsh.

    Look, I think it was way too harsh. But if the school needed to give the minimum level of punishment then their hands are tied because of the zero-tolerance policy. And I acknowledge this fault.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 10-15-09 at 03:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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