View Poll Results: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

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  • Yes. The rule against weapons on campus needs to be enforced! What sort of message does that send?

    3 4.84%
  • He should have gotten less time since it wasn't a very deadly weapon and his intent was not violent

    3 4.84%
  • I'm not sure about this one...

    0 0%
  • He should have had a warning.

    7 11.29%
  • What is wrong with school official these days? Seriously, this is ridiculous!

    49 79.03%
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Thread: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    It seems to me that the only defense you're setting up is ignorance of the rules. If you're a student who want to follow the rules, then you ought to already know that knives are not allowed on campus. Should've known better.
    Except you get screwed over for honest and completely understandable mistakes. Our eagle scout probably used his pocket knife for all kinds of scouting activities, so he would keep one in his car. Normally, lets suppose he knows about the rules and takes it out before he goes to school. However, even if he is 99% good about remembering to take it out, statistically he going to forget at least once during his time in school, and get suspended.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Except your poison is far worse. There is no excuse to throw away common sense when delivering punishments, especially as a matter of policy.
    Actually I don't think either one is worse off than the other. They're both bad equally. And again, I acknowledge the faults, I'm not saying you're wrong.

    I would have used a swiss army knife when replacing computer hardware.
    Why would a student be replacing hardware? To my knowledge no computer class would require this. Also to my knowledge, because of the history of electronic theft in my district, all computer hardware is locked inside specifically to prevent student access. I imagine that many school districts have done the same.

    I would have used bread knives or dinner knives to cut food.
    School cafeterias already provide that, as well as sporks. They typically come in neat little packages, even including a piece of napkin. The only thing is that it's plastic.

    I would have used an exacto knife to cut things exactly when making posters.
    Something that scissors can achieve.

    A pocket knife is an incredibly versatile tool that is useful for an uncountable number of tasks.
    That it is, but other more appropriate tools for a school setting may take it place, thus eliminating an unneeded risk.

    How many kids have been killed by pocketknives in the last year? The fact is a pocketknife is both a useful tool and a terrible weapon. Banning them is stupid enough, but levying a serious punishment like a suspension is unacceptable. They should have just taken the knife away and returned it to him after school.
    I think I would have to choose to err on the side of precaution. But I agree, the suspension in this particular case was heavy handed. At the same time though, I understand why punishment must be given.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 10-15-09 at 02:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Except you get screwed over for honest and completely understandable mistakes. Our eagle scout probably used his pocket knife for all kinds of scouting activities, so he would keep one in his car. Normally, lets suppose he knows about the rules and takes it out before he goes to school. However, even if he is 99% good about remembering to take it out, statistically he going to forget at least once during his time in school, and get suspended.
    So would you want the schools to choose convenience for the student over their safety?

    And let me just set this straight, because it seems that everyone is thinking that I'm supporting this school's decision, I'm not. I think the punishment is way too harsh, it doesn't make any sense. However, I do support the zero-tolerance policy. I do not want any weapons on campus if it can be prevented. The level of punishment has to be determined, at the same time a minimum level of punishment (perhaps 1-2 day suspension) must be set.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  4. #74
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    When rules are made that ignore "intent" they are worthless to begin with and breed contempt for the law or rules, nothing more.
    I don't think the rules ignored intent, at all. I imagine if the school found that the student intended to use the pocket knife to injure another student, the school would be expelling the eagle scout instead of just issuing a suspension.

    I think that the school may have considered intent and was trying to give the eagle scout the minimum punishment, which could have been the 20 some odd days. I don't know, it varies from district to district, state to state.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 10-15-09 at 02:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #75
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Why would a student be replacing hardware? To my knowledge no computer class would require this. Also to my knowledge, because of the history of electronic theft in my district, all computer hardware is locked inside specifically to prevent student access. I imagine that many school districts have done the same.
    When I was a TA, I fixed my teachers classroom computer after some components failed.

    School cafeterias already provide that, as well as sporks. They typically come in neat little packages, even including a piece of napkin. The only thing is that it's plastic.
    Ever tired to cut real bread with one of those knives? Or hard cheese?

    Something that scissors can achieve.
    Unless the backing material is something thick like cardboard.

    That it is, but other more appropriate tools for a school setting may take it place, thus eliminating an unneeded risk.
    What risk? You haven't demonstrated the danger of pocket knives.

    I think I would have to choose to err on the side of precaution.
    So you have nothing.

  6. #76
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I don't think the rules ignored intent, at all. I imagine if the school found that the student intended to use the pocket knife to injure another student, the school would be expelling the eagle scout instead of just issuing a suspension.
    It was locked in his car. A 20 day suspension is not warranted by a 2" pocket knife locked in a car.

    The story said nothing about taking the knife to injure anyone. So no "intent" existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I think that the school may have considered intent and was trying to give the eagle scout the minimum punishment, which could have been the 20 some odd days. I don't know, it varies from district to district, state to state.
    The story even after a search said nothing about intent. It said the knife was locked in his own vehicle.

    So far your argument amounts to: well it could have been this way. I am stating fact based on what was reported not speculation that is irrelevant.

    For example...

    Man is drunk and accidentally walks into the wrong house (happens quite a bit) and is charged with criminal trespass, not burglary. Because no intent to commit a crime existed.

    Accidents happen and the school should recognize this and act accordingly.

    Zero tolerance is moronic at best. Let the punishment fit the crime.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 10-15-09 at 02:54 AM.
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    So would you want the schools to choose convenience for the student over their safety?
    Yes. The danger is small enough to be completely irrelevant. Organized sports are far more dangerous, and thus get school funding.

    And let me just set this straight, because it seems that everyone is thinking that I'm supporting this school's decision, I'm not. I think the punishment is way too harsh, it doesn't make any sense. However, I do support the zero-tolerance policy. I do not want any weapons on campus if it can be prevented. The level of punishment has to be determined, at the same time a minimum level of punishment (perhaps 1-2 day suspension) must be set.
    A pocket knife is not a weapon! It is impractical to cause another person serious injury with one, and people don't even try to use it as such.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    When I was a TA, I fixed my teachers classroom computer after some components failed.
    Did you need a knife? Did you even have to take off the cover to repair it?

    Ever tired to cut real bread with one of those knives? Or hard cheese?
    When's the last time you had public school cafeteria food?

    Unless the backing material is something thick like cardboard.
    I'm pretty sure scissors can handle that...

    What risk? You haven't demonstrated the danger of pocket knives.
    Anything can be used as a weapon. I don't have to demonstrate specifically how a pocket knife can be a danger because damn near everything can be a weapon. What I said was this: I do not want any weapons on campus if it can be prevented.

    A pair of scissors can be used as a weapon, but because classrooms use scissors on a regular basis, it is reasonable to have scissors on campus, so it cannot be prevented. Knives are not the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Yes. The danger is small enough to be completely irrelevant. Organized sports are far more dangerous, and thus get school funding.
    How are you comparing organized sports and pocket knives?? I don't understand.

    A pocket knife is not a weapon! It is impractical to cause another person serious injury with one, and people don't even try to use it as such.
    Anything can be a weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It was locked in his car. A 20 day suspension is not warranted by a 2" pocket knife locked in a car.

    The story said nothing about taking the knife to injure anyone. So no "intent" existed.

    Sigh....I was giving you a hypothetical...

    The story even after a search said nothing about intent. It said the knife was locked in his own vehicle.

    So far your argument amounts to: well it could have been this way. I am stating fact based on what was reported not speculation that is irrelevant.

    For example...

    Man is drunk and accidentally walks into the wrong house (happens quite a bit) and is charged with criminal trespass, not burglary. Because no intent to commit a crime existed.

    Accidents happen and the school should recognize this and act accordingly.

    Zero tolerance is moronic at best. Let the punishment fit the crime.
    I think you've misread what I posted...
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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