View Poll Results: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

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  • Yes. The rule against weapons on campus needs to be enforced! What sort of message does that send?

    3 4.84%
  • He should have gotten less time since it wasn't a very deadly weapon and his intent was not violent

    3 4.84%
  • I'm not sure about this one...

    0 0%
  • He should have had a warning.

    7 11.29%
  • What is wrong with school official these days? Seriously, this is ridiculous!

    49 79.03%
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Thread: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think that zero tolerance rules are made to be blanket so that administrators are insulated from charges of favoritism, racism, or bigotry and bias. This does provide insulation, but also wipes-out the ability to deal with unique situations as they arise. In that there is severe injustice.
    Choose your poison?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Well according to Obvious Child's link earlier....
    Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.


    “The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

    ...

    “There are still serious threats every day in schools,” Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.



    Now, I'm not saying that a lot of school administrators are racists. In fact, I don't think any of the administrators that I know of personally are racist. But I don't doubt for one second that certain schools in various places around the country still facilitate racism, because racism is still alive. Racism may be dying, but it's still alive.
    That wasn't my point. What I was getting at was that the reasons given don't really jive with the reality of what zero tolerance policies do: give the teachers and administrators an excuse for taking zero responsibility by making the situation always, 100% the child's fault without exception by enshrining that fault as an institutional policy.

    It's just stupid and further shows that the degradation of our education system lies just as much with the administration, if not more so, as it does with the kids and their parents.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    i find myself wondering why the eagle scout believes rules don't apply to him. that said, 20 days? i don't think that's reasonable.

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    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #44
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That wasn't my point. What I was getting at was that the reasons given don't really jive with the reality of what zero tolerance policies do: give the teachers and administrators an excuse for taking zero responsibility by making the situation always, 100% the child's fault without exception by enshrining that fault as an institutional policy.
    Okay, but if the administrators did have to deal out punishment on a case by case basis, wouldn't we open up the possibility of discrimination? Either way we're screwed. Zero-tolerance we're screwed, no zero-tolerance we're still screwed.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Okay, but if the administrators did have to deal out punishment on a case by case basis, wouldn't we open up the possibility of discrimination? Either way we're screwed. Zero-tolerance we're screwed, no zero-tolerance we're still screwed.
    No, we hold teachers and administrators to a standard and when one is found to be lacking in the character to make sound judgments, we terminate them. Screw their unions.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That wasn't my point. What I was getting at was that the reasons given don't really jive with the reality of what zero tolerance policies do: give the teachers and administrators an excuse for taking zero responsibility by making the situation always, 100% the child's fault without exception by enshrining that fault as an institutional policy.

    It's just stupid and further shows that the degradation of our education system lies just as much with the administration, if not more so, as it does with the kids and their parents.
    Texas finally dumped 0 tolerance because some kid got busted for having something like a butter knife in her car. She is and a student involved in the school and community activies. But according to the old law she had to go to a special and have that on the record.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, we hold teachers and administrators to a standard and when one is found to be lacking in the character to make sound judgments, we terminate them. Screw their unions.
    Who are judging the teachers and administrators??

    And an FYI, teachers usually do not decide what level of punishment, especially if that punishment is severe. The teacher can recommend it, but the one who actually decides is either the Dean or the Principal. And in the extreme cases, it will be up to the superintendent.

    Another FYI, teachers and administrators do not belong in the same union for obvious reasons.

    The ones you are really mad at are administrators, not teachers.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    The student is an Eagle Scout, trained to lead youths in both leadership and practical skills, that include safety with cutting tools. Apparently he is also a soldier who is serious about a career in service to our nation, which implies a high standard of personal conduct. The knife was locked away by the student, obviously demonstrating responsibility and safety.

    Apparently there is a question of perspective regarding what constitutes a weapon (Boy Scouts are not allowed to carry any), and the legality in which the police officer clearly stated no law was violated.
    Last edited by American; 10-14-09 at 03:29 PM.
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Apparently there is a question of perspective regarding what constitutes a weapon (Boy Scouts are not allowed to carry any), and the legality in which the police officer clearly stated no law was violated.
    Of course, school policy are not considered laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Of course, school policy are not considered laws.
    I don't think that's the issue, I think a just outcome is the purpose. The policy is for safety, and since the Scout clearly demonstrated a concern for safety, he fulfilled the intent of the policy.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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