View Poll Results: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

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  • Yes. The rule against weapons on campus needs to be enforced! What sort of message does that send?

    3 4.84%
  • He should have gotten less time since it wasn't a very deadly weapon and his intent was not violent

    3 4.84%
  • I'm not sure about this one...

    0 0%
  • He should have had a warning.

    7 11.29%
  • What is wrong with school official these days? Seriously, this is ridiculous!

    49 79.03%
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Thread: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    And what would be the motivation in doing that?
    Taking responsibility for administration of the school off administrators.

    What's the motivation for anyone trying to shirk off their job duties?

    Edit: I am sure law suit avoidance might have a little to do with it, too.
    Last edited by jallman; 10-13-09 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    "A forever suspension for those utterly stupid school officials", is my immediate reaction..
    Seriously , probably every one of them should resign - particularly those in love with "zero tolerance".
    And interesting - the "weapon" was locked in his car..
    As usual, there is more, maybe much more to this.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Could be worse.

    He could have been this poor kid:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/ed...iscipline.html

    Seriously. Zero Tolerance is Zero Intelligence.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #34
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I understand that, but I'm just saying there's at least reasons for zero-tolerance policies, regardless if you personally support them.
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yeah. To keep the administration from actually having the responsibility of making rational decisions on a case by case basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    And what would be the motivation in doing that?

    The purpose of having a zero-tolerance policy is to ensure that there can be no exceptions to the rule, at all. Whether you're an eagle scout or a gang member, the rule must apply.

    In the school that I teach at we have a zero-tolerance policy for bring weapons on campus as well. The punishment is suspension, up to but not including expulsion. Days of suspension are to be determined by the Dean. Expulsions need to be reviewed by the school board.

    In the case of this Eagle scout, the zero-tolerance rule must apply, which just means that some form of punishment needs to be given. If this rule was not applied to this eagle scout, then he is an exception to the rule, and weapons is now introduced onto campus, thus defeating the purpose of having a zero-tolerance policy against weapons on campus.

    There can be no exception to the zero-tolerance policy, but the the level of punishment can be discretionary.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #35
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    When rules are so rigid that they force common sense out of the window, then there is a problem. Discretionary room is needed with such rules, lest the law eat all of us.

  6. #36
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    The purpose of having a zero-tolerance policy is to ensure that there can be no exceptions to the rule, at all. Whether you're an eagle scout or a gang member, the rule must apply.

    In the school that I teach at we have a zero-tolerance policy for bring weapons on campus as well. The punishment is suspension, up to but not including expulsion. Days of suspension are to be determined by the Dean. Expulsions need to be reviewed by the school board.

    In the case of this Eagle scout, the zero-tolerance rule must apply, which just means that some form of punishment needs to be given. If this rule was not applied to this eagle scout, then he is an exception to the rule, and weapons is now introduced onto campus, thus defeating the purpose of having a zero-tolerance policy against weapons on campus.

    There can be no exception to the zero-tolerance policy, but the the level of punishment can be discretionary.
    And therein lies the rub. Zero tolerance policies are nothing more than a way for irresponsible administration to justify their irresponsibility in making decisions. :shrugs:

  7. #37
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And therein lies the rub. Zero tolerance policies are nothing more than a way for irresponsible administration to justify their irresponsibility in making decisions. :shrugs:
    Another reason for having a zero-tolerance policy is to protect students from discrimination (by the administrators who are assigning the punishments).
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Another reason for having a zero-tolerance policy is to protect students from discrimination (by the administrators who are assigning the punishments).
    I don't buy into that hype for one second.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    I think that zero tolerance rules are made to be blanket so that administrators are insulated from charges of favoritism, racism, or bigotry and bias. This does provide insulation, but also wipes-out the ability to deal with unique situations as they arise. In that there is severe injustice.

  10. #40
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    Re: Should this Eagle Scout have been suspended for keeping 2" pocketknife in his car

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't buy into that hype for one second.
    Well according to Obvious Child's link earlier....
    Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.


    “The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

    ...

    “There are still serious threats every day in schools,” Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.



    Now, I'm not saying that a lot of school administrators are racists. In fact, I don't think any of the administrators that I know of personally are racist. But I don't doubt for one second that certain schools in various places around the country still facilitate racism, because racism is still alive. Racism may be dying, but it's still alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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