View Poll Results: Which of these registration requirements violate your rights?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • The requirement to register... to vote

    3 7.89%
  • ... to have an abortion

    18 47.37%
  • ... to attend a political rally

    28 73.68%
  • ... to send a letter to the editor

    26 68.42%
  • ... to publish a letter to the editor

    25 65.79%
  • ... to buy a gun

    18 47.37%
  • ... to post a blog

    25 65.79%
  • ... to go to church

    26 68.42%
  • ... none of the above

    5 13.16%
  • ... all of the above

    5 13.16%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Does registration infringe on your right to...

  1. #41
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i don't quote from any campaign.
    YOUR quote:

    Even if the court were to hold the Second Amendment applicable to states and localities, such a ruling is unlikely to change the crucial holding by the Supreme Court in Heller that a wide range of reasonable gun laws are presumptively constitutional, and that the Second Amendment right is narrowly limited to guns in the home for self-defense," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
    and if you were correct in your interpretation, registration of handguns would not be allowed. but registration is allowed, thus far. so it seems that for now, my take is the correct one.
    This is an appeal to authority, not a counter-argument.

    Can you counter rmy argument -- that is, illsutrate how my argument is wrong -- or not?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 10-14-09 at 01:24 PM.

  2. #42
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Apocalypse, Joe1991, Sanitas

    If you had to register with the government before you had an abortion or went to church, your right to do these things would not be infringed?

  3. #43
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    YOUR quote:




    This is an appeal to authority, not a counter-argument.

    Can you counter rmy argument -- that is, illsutrate how my argument is wrong -- or not?
    my bad, i guess i did quote the brady campaign. i didn't realize that.

    as for your argument, i repeat, the registration requirement does not, in any way, prohibit you from exercising your right to bear arms. there is no undue burden, and there is no constitutional requirement that there be no "conditions" on those rights.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #44
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    and the state has the right to require registrations - even for constitutionally protected rights.
    states don't have rights like people do, they have powers granted by people.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Even more absurd is the notion that you have a constitutionally protected right to purchase ammunition. You don't. Most of the founders made their own. Where's the strict constitutionalist argument now? Out the window it seems, because it's convenient.
    They made their own firearms too--the state surely didn't. What does the method of manufacture have to do with anything?

    A firearm requires ammunition to be effective, remember?

  5. #45
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    my bad, i guess i did quote the brady campaign. i didn't realize that.

    as for your argument, i repeat, the registration requirement does not, in any way, prohibit you from exercising your right to bear arms. there is no undue burden, and there is no constitutional requirement that there be no "conditions" on those rights.
    wait...what? There's no Constitutional requirement that there be no "conditions" on rights? They're rights. Rights are restrictions on government, not the other way around. If the government has control over rights, they're not rights; they're privileges. It's not that I'm prohibited or not from doing A, it's whether government has proper cause to be involved in A. And on this front, they don't. To keep and bear arms is a right, so is to secure yourself, papers, property, effects, ect from unreasonable search and seizure. The govenrment has to have reason, the government has to get warrant; not us. The restriction isn't upon the people, it's on the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #46
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    wait...what? There's no Constitutional requirement that there be no "conditions" on rights? They're rights. Rights are restrictions on government, not the other way around. If the government has control over rights, they're not rights; they're privileges. It's not that I'm prohibited or not from doing A, it's whether government has proper cause to be involved in A. And on this front, they don't. To keep and bear arms is a right, so is to secure yourself, papers, property, effects, ect from unreasonable search and seizure. The govenrment has to have reason, the government has to get warrant; not us. The restriction isn't upon the people, it's on the government.
    saeems to me the gov't granted those very rights, did they not?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  7. #47
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    saeems to me the gov't granted those very rights, did they not?
    No, government doesn't grant rights. Those rights were reserved by the People when we created the government. The restriction is on the government, not the People. The rights of the People are free for the People to exercise at their digression. The government isn't supposed to be able to do anything about it. Government doesn't grant anything, it can't. The government doesn't have inherent power, authority, or sovereignty. The People have inherent power, authority, and sovereignty; and it is those which the government borrows by our consent to operate. The People are the seat of everything, and our rights and liberties are to be upheld to the maximum. That's why the Bill of Rights were there in the first place, people feared the government would grow too much and forget its place. Those rights were specifically reserved by us, built into the contract which creates and grants government its power. Government is restricted, not the People.
    Last edited by Ikari; 10-14-09 at 01:43 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #48
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    As for your argument, i repeat, the registration requirement does not, in any way, prohibit you from exercising your right to bear arms
    I have, and I repeat, illustrated to you in a clear and concise manner how your statement is wrong.

    Repeating your statement doesn't change that -- you need to actually counter the argument I put forth and show it to be unsound.

    To this point, you have not done so.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 10-14-09 at 01:48 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    No, you haven't. Neither of you have. Contemporaneous to the writing of the constitution, the new country actually had registration laws. This is a big problem for strict constructionists, because they look at original intent, and contemporaneous meanings of words.
    No it's not. The quote you provided requires that people register for the militia and bring a weapon, that is not the same as registering to purchase a weapon. The 1st case is an example of a "well regulated militia," that people actually show up and bring weapons to fight is intrinsic. The same is not true in the second case, as has been explained to you many times already.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    And, you made no argument for the constitutionally protected right to purchase ammunition. It is not inherent ... because common practice was not to purchase ammunition at the time of the writing of the document.
    So what? It was common practice to use ammunition in firearms--that's what it's for. Without ammunition a firearm is ineffective.

    People make ammo; people make guns. People sell ammo; people sell guns. Some people today still make their own ammo. Some people still make their own guns. What does the government inherrently have to do with the process at all?

  10. #50
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    Re: Does registration infringe on your right to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The requirement to register... to vote
    No, the government needs to guard against fraud. Rather or not they do a good job at it is another issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to have an abortion
    Women shouldn't have that legal ability anyway, so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to attend a political rally
    Yes. There is no compelling state interest to block your right to freely associate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to send a letter to the editor
    You do not have a right to send anyone a letter through a prvatly owned website, so no. There is no right to be infringed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to publish a letter to the editor
    I would assume that the editor is already registered, to then have the ability to post letters. Even-though this question is therefore irrelevant, no, the editor does not have any constitutional right to post just whatever they wish. The editor is accountable to his boss, the readers, and various laws regarding public decency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to buy a gun
    Yes, though this may be a necessary evil. Making all states shall-issue resolves the problem, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to post a blog
    You have no right to post a blog on someone else s hardware or using someone else's internetz.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... to go to church
    The government has no compelling interest in knowing who is going to which church to impose on your right to freely associate.

    However, the church itself is free to require some sort of registration as it sees fit.

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