View Poll Results: Do you want the United States to decriminalize all drugs?

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  • Yes

    32 53.33%
  • No

    22 36.67%
  • Other

    6 10.00%
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Thread: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

  1. #131
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's sad that I have to explain the difference between wishful thinking and reality to you. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who wish they could fly like Superman, but the reality is, they can't. It's a mature and rational mind that learns to accept it's limitations. Give it a shot.
    Wanting to fly like Superman is not analogous to wanting to live free, as the former is fantasy whereas the latter is indisputable biological fact. Minor distinction, I know, but important nonetheless.

    For one thing, self-evidence is a contradictory term.
    Yea, Thomas Jefferson is such a moron. He should have known better than to insert a contradictory term into our Declaration of Independence.

    If only YOU were there to stop him from doing something so foolish!

    Cephus or Thomas Jefferson? Who should we listen to?



    There is evidence, that which we can present to others and exists objectively. Then there is wishful thinking, that which an individual wants to think is true, even if they cannot defend it rationally, critically or logically. You seem to be painfully full of the latter.
    The human desire to live free IS an objective fact; always has been, I'm afraid.

    Sure... read properly. Translate that as the way *YOU* want it read.
    No. I just read the words and apply them accordingly; if there is any ambiguity in the letter of the law then we can look to the spirit of the law by referencing the Founders. It has nothing to do with what *I* want, really.

    If you think I'm wrong then, by all means, make some kind of argument instead of going off on silly tangents.

    Here, use this to make your argument:

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_constitution]United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Geez, no wonder people think libertarians are so nuts. News flash for you, Cinderella, the government is made up *OF THE PEOPLE*. The government can do whatever the people want. In fact, if enough people want it, they can amend the constitution and revoke any of your cherished rights they feel like and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do about it.
    Yes, rights can be violated. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

    A "right" is simply defined as an act with a moral basis. The moral basis being the innate desire of all humans to live free and unmolested. You can argue that "rights" are not tangible force-fields which protect us from violence but you would be creating a strawman because natural rights are just a moral sentiment we derive from a biological phenomenon, i.e., the innate desire of humans to live free.

    If you do not recognize the morality of natural rights you're free to live in the jungle with the rest of the animals.

    Time to wake up and smell the roses. Reality guffaws at your wishful thinking.
    Wake up and smell the roses? I guffaw at your misuse of a classic saying...

  2. #132
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Wanting to fly like Superman is not analogous to wanting to live free, as the former is fantasy whereas the latter is indisputable biological fact. Minor distinction, I know, but important nonetheless.



    Yea, Thomas Jefferson is such a moron. He should have known better than to insert a contradictory term into our Declaration of Independence.

    If only YOU were there to stop him from doing something so foolish!

    Cephus or Thomas Jefferson? Who should we listen to?





    The human desire to live free IS an objective fact; always has been, I'm afraid.



    No. I just read the words and apply them accordingly; if there is any ambiguity in the letter of the law then we can look to the spirit of the law by referencing the Founders. It has nothing to do with what *I* want, really.

    If you think I'm wrong then, by all means, make some kind of argument instead of going off on silly tangents.

    Here, use this to make your argument:

    United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Yes, rights can be violated. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

    A "right" is simply defined as an act with a moral basis. The moral basis being the innate desire of all humans to live free and unmolested. You can argue that "rights" are not tangible force-fields which protect us from violence but you would be creating a strawman because natural rights are just a moral sentiment we derive from a biological phenomenon, i.e., the innate desire of humans to live free.

    If you do not recognize the morality of natural rights you're free to live in the jungle with the rest of the animals.



    Wake up and smell the roses? I guffaw at your misuse of a classic saying...
    Cut him some slack, it was a clear and obvious sentence and you casually brushed it off with a lame dismissal tactic.

    You deserved the heat, so take it like a man and get to the point.

  3. #133
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If a right is a social construct, then all he would need to do is evidence society agreeing that such a right exist. Rights formed by society exist even when the random token exception chooses to disagree.

    The person who denies the right needs to understand that the right exists non the less within that society, despite their singular objection. That person needs to go outside of that society to be free from that right.
    I thanked you for this post, Jerry, since it summed things up nicely. However, to tie back to the original topic, if our society determines that it is a right to be able to ingest regulated drugs, then you may be that person who denies that right. What will you do then?

  4. #134
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I thanked you for this post, Jerry, since it summed things up nicely. However, to tie back to the original topic, if our society determines that it is a right to be able to ingest regulated drugs, then you may be that person who denies that right. What will you do then?
    Use other existing rights to invoke a change.

    Protest, write my rep, vote accordingly, donate, etc.

    What I would not do is stick out my lip and say "that right doesn't exist" when the ink is on the paper for all to see.

  5. #135
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Use other existing rights to invoke a change.

    Protest, write my rep, vote accordingly, donate, etc.

    What I would not do is stick out my lip and say "that right doesn't exist" when the ink is on the paper for all to see.
    It's going to happen you know. I've always thought it should be the Republicans which drive the legalization. Just like they did Civil Rights. (not meaning to equate Civil Rights with drug legalization, even though that may be how it appears...)

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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Cut him some slack, it was a clear and obvious sentence and you casually brushed it off with a lame dismissal tactic.

    You deserved the heat, so take it like a man and get to the point.
    Ummm, I don't know what you're talking about, Jer-bear.

  7. #137
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Wanting to fly like Superman is not analogous to wanting to live free, as the former is fantasy whereas the latter is indisputable biological fact.
    It is? Then you ought to have no problem defending that view, seeing as you think it's an "indisputable biological fact". Please explain how humans, which are biologically social ceatures, can all want to "live free".

    I don't think you can do it.

    Yea, Thomas Jefferson is such a moron. He should have known better than to insert a contradictory term into our Declaration of Independence.
    Believe it or not, Jefferson was just a man, just like all of the founding fathers. They weren't special, they weren't supernatural, they were just people. I know you really want to deify the founding fathers but it's just not so.

    The human desire to live free IS an objective fact; always has been, I'm afraid.
    Prove it. You claimed it's an objective fact, let's see your objective evidence. This ought to be good.

    A "right" is simply defined as an act with a moral basis.
    Considering no one can agree what that particular moral basis is, that's ridiculous. The whole idea of objective morality and ethics has been soundly refuted. I doubt you could find a single moral precept that is accepted across all cultures and across time. It just doesn't exist. And without a single objective morality, basing "rights" on them is laughable at best.

    If you do not recognize the morality of natural rights you're free to live in the jungle with the rest of the animals.
    Please tell me this isn't some boneheaded religious bullcrap. Please.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  8. #138
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It is? Then you ought to have no problem defending that view, seeing as you think it's an "indisputable biological fact". Please explain how humans, which are biologically social ceatures, can all want to "live free".

    I don't think you can do it.
    Try to kill a human and see what happens.

    Try to lock your neighbor in his basement and see what happens.

    Try to take a cigarette out of a stranger's mouth and see what happens.

    I'm sure the results will be quite consistent amongst the population.

    Believe it or not, Jefferson was just a man...
    Oh really!? Wow!

    They weren't special...
    It depends on what you mean by "special".

    I know you really want to deify the founding fathers but it's just not so.
    Strawman...ad hominem. Typical.

    Prove it. You claimed it's an objective fact, let's see your objective evidence. This ought to be good.
    You see evidence of it everyday; people live and exercise free will. Even right now you are proving my point by living and posting on an internet forum. I wonder what would happen if I came into your house and tried to force you off the computer.

    Considering no one can agree what that particular moral basis is, that's ridiculous. The whole idea of objective morality and ethics has been soundly refuted. I doubt you could find a single moral precept that is accepted across all cultures and across time. It just doesn't exist. And without a single objective morality, basing "rights" on them is laughable at best.
    What do I care if a blind man doesn't see the sun? I know it's there, as does the vast majority of humanity.

    Living free is what moral humans respect and cherish. If you don't agree with that particular brand of morality then live in the jungle. I mean, do you agree that living free is a moral precept or not?

    Please tell me this isn't some boneheaded religious bullcrap. Please.
    Of course it isn't, I'm an agnostic. There's nothing religious about respecting individual liberty.

  9. #139
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    Try to kill a human and see what happens.
    You most likely get arrested because it's a criminal act, as defined by our legal system. There are exceptions, you can kill in self defense, police can kill in the line of duty and soldiers often get medals if they kill other human beings. It's not universal by any means.

    Try to lock your neighbor in his basement and see what happens.
    Depends on the circumstances. If my neighbor is being a danger to himself and/or others, I can certainly lock him in his basement while waiting for the authorities to arrive. I might even get a commendation.

    Try to take a cigarette out of a stranger's mouth and see what happens.
    Depends on who you are. I'm sure a police officer could do it without any untoward side effects.

    Even right now you are proving my point by living and posting on an internet forum.
    Sure, this happens to be an open forum that the public is invited to post on once they register. To do so, they have to agree to follow the rules and if they do not, they can be thrown off. If I decide to disregard the forum rules, I can lose access to them. So much for "free will".

    I wonder what would happen if I came into your house and tried to force you off the computer.
    I'd have you arrested for trespassing and/or breaking and entering, which has nothing whatsoever to do with my "rights". It has to do with your actions. But by that reasoning, how could I possibly deny your "right" to do whatever you want to do? You lose again.

    What do I care if a blind man doesn't see the sun? I know it's there, as does the vast majority of humanity.
    In other words, you have no rational argument. Asserting something as true doesn't make it true, nor does applying logical fallacies like argumentum ad populum.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It's going to happen you know.
    I don't think so.

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