View Poll Results: Do you want the United States to decriminalize all drugs?

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  • Yes

    32 53.33%
  • No

    22 36.67%
  • Other

    6 10.00%
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Thread: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

  1. #101
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    People talk about the need to "protect victims" from drugs. However, I fail to see how a drug addict who has made their own stupid decision is any more worthy of protection than innocent people caught in the cross fire of gang warfare that is fed by the War on Drugs

  2. #102
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because they're already legal. There's a difference between making an existing legal thing illegal and legalizing something that is illegal.
    yeah and the difference is a black market that is destroying thousands of lives, fostering gang violence and instead of preventing drugs from ending up in the hands of children encourages it



    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    Except that... it's not. While the direct impact of drug use may be on the individual, society carries the cost of widespread drug use.
    Society carries the cost of Prohibition.. if you really wanted to minimize its cost you would back steps to alleviate drug use.. and this does not mewan going to a draconian death penalty route.. if you want that move to Myanmar.

    The costs of prohibition to society are MUCH higher than the cost to society from the drug use/abuse itself.

    If you really wanted to treat the problem you would be backing steps to eradicate blockades preventing people from seeking treatment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    Which is simply not the case. People can't speed because they want to. People can't just do what they want.
    Because speeding puts others at risk

    When it comes to an individuals body.. then yes they should be able to do damn well what they want with it. When that starts to infringe on risking the well being of others, that is where the laws come into play.. ie. DUI, public intox, assault ect.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc
    yeah and the difference is a black market that is destroying thousands of lives, fostering gang violence and instead of preventing drugs from ending up in the hands of children encourages it
    And if we were actually fighting a war on drugs, we could wipe out the black market. If every single drug dealer, producer and smuggler was put to death, you'd start having a hard time finding anyone who was still willing to sell it. Most of the gangs, specifically Mexican drug gangs like MS-13, are so successful because we're not really serious about fighting the drug war.

    The costs of prohibition to society are MUCH higher than the cost to society from the drug use/abuse itself.
    I don't buy that they are by any means. Since I think we might as well legalize marijuana but keep severe restrictions on most other drugs, just doing that right there would limit the problem dramatically. You execute all the drug dealers, you require treatment for all the addicts and the system pays for itself. Virtually no cost involved.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    People talk about the need to "protect victims" from drugs. However, I fail to see how a drug addict who has made their own stupid decision is any more worthy of protection than innocent people caught in the cross fire of gang warfare that is fed by the War on Drugs
    I don't particularly give a damn about the victims, I care about the social costs caused by drugs. I care about people who are unable to work because of drugs that our social safety net has to pay for. I care about the medical costs incurred by these users. I care about the tax burden that is incurred by these users. I care about the lost tax revenue that is caused by these users.

    The individual users themselves can all drop dead for all I care, they made their decision, let them deal with the consequences.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    I voted other on this poll.

    I do not want to the US to take a half assed measure and decriminalize drugs. This does nothing to alleviate the overarching problem of the black market, nor does it allow for maximum treatment availability/options for those who are addicted, nor does it do anything to gt drugs out of the hands of the children.

    I am for complete legalization, and taking it a step further free distribution of maintenance doses of the most dangerous and highly addictive substances in an outpatient facility.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And if we were actually fighting a war on drugs, we could wipe out the black market. If every single drug dealer, producer and smuggler was put to death, you'd start having a hard time finding anyone who was still willing to sell it. Most of the gangs, specifically Mexican drug gangs like MS-13, are so successful because we're not really serious about fighting the drug war.
    Might as well also put to death anyone not stopping for the police. If they chase past a mile call out the attack chopper. O_O

    I thought that Mexico was currently a war zone thanks to all the power drug lords have gained thanks to prohibition.


    washingtonpost.com
    ARCATA, Calif. -- Stiff competition from thousands of mom-and-pop marijuana farmers in the United States threatens the bottom line for powerful Mexican drug organizations in a way that decades of arrests and seizures have not, according to law enforcement officials and pot growers in the United States and Mexico.

    Almost all of the marijuana consumed in the multibillion-dollar U.S. market once came from Mexico or Colombia. Now as much as half is produced domestically, often by small-scale operators who painstakingly tend greenhouses and indoor gardens to produce the more potent, and expensive, product that consumers now demand, according to authorities and marijuana dealers on both sides of the border.
    Leave it to those who operate as if it was a truly free market and American Dream to fix things.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 10-15-09 at 06:27 PM.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't particularly give a damn about the victims, I care about the social costs caused by drugs. I care about people who are unable to work because of drugs that our social safety net has to pay for. I care about the medical costs incurred by these users. I care about the tax burden that is incurred by these users. I care about the lost tax revenue that is caused by these users.

    The individual users themselves can all drop dead for all I care, they made their decision, let them deal with the consequences.
    Your position is one of zero empathy and pure control of what is opposite of you it seems.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't particularly give a damn about the victims, I care about the social costs caused by drugs. I care about people who are unable to work because of drugs that our social safety net has to pay for. I care about the medical costs incurred by these users. I care about the tax burden that is incurred by these users. I care about the lost tax revenue that is caused by these users.

    The individual users themselves can all drop dead for all I care, they made their decision, let them deal with the consequences.
    The societal cost for murder is also great as it does things like break up homes and eliminates what could be productive members of society. If drug abusers can drop dead for all you care, then why give them the safety net at all? Finnally, the War on Drugs increases the societal impact of drug abuse, because addicts are largely scared away from getting real help.

  9. #109
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And if we were actually fighting a war on drugs, we could wipe out the black market. If every single drug dealer, producer and smuggler was put to death, you'd start having a hard time finding anyone who was still willing to sell it. Most of the gangs, specifically Mexican drug gangs like MS-13, are so successful because we're not really serious about fighting the drug war.
    And we have been through this before.. no it would not.

    Realistically there would never be a death penalty put in place, and just look at our current death penalty cases for murderers.. how many actually get the sentence and how many are actually carried out compared to how many murders take place?

    In 2008, 37 persons in nine states were executed -- 18 in Texas; 4 in Virginia; 3 each in Georgia and South Carolina; 2 each in Florida, Mississippi, Ohio, and Oklahoma, and 1 in Kentucky.
    Bureau of Justice Statistics Capital Punishment Statistics

    I think there are a few more murders per year in the U.S. than that.

    If we cannot even execute our murderers how the hell are we going to execute drug dealers?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    I don't buy that they are by any means. Since I think we might as well legalize marijuana but keep severe restrictions on most other drugs, just doing that right there would limit the problem dramatically. You execute all the drug dealers,
    again we have been through this already.. Drug dealers are executing each other in droves (much more effectively than a death penalty could ever hope to accomplish I might add), and there are plenty to come in behind them and take their place.

    Quote Originally Posted by cephus
    you require treatment for all the addicts and the system pays for itself. Virtually no cost involved.
    requiring treatment is ineffective, you have to want to quit to quit.

    the only thing requiring treatment does is clogs up the system so that those who actually want treatment have to compete for availability with those who are forced into treatment.

    We need to encourage treatment, not discourage it. People are fearful of treatment as it is because of the law, and you want to exacerbate it by making a blurred line between addiction and distribution having the penalty of death?
    Last edited by marduc; 10-15-09 at 06:40 PM.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Mexico Decriminalizes All Drugs!

    The Death penalty would be inneffective. One is far more likely to die selling drugs on a street corner in Detroit than on death row in Texas

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