• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you enjoy bull**** ?

Do You Enjoy being fed Bull**** ?

  • yes i love it

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • no

    Votes: 9 47.4%

  • Total voters
    19
They are much more absolute than any comparable principle for liberals or conservatives. I tried to think of something analogous for liberals/conservatives...but the closest analogy I could come up with was "Government can help build a good society by helping the poor" for liberals, and "Government can help build a good society by helping families" for conservatives.

I helped. Libs and Cons are often are so caught up in their partys that they can't see their own hands without some party leader telling them.

Neither of those are as comprehensive or universal as the things I listed for libertarians, and on any given issue I think you'd find a lot of liberals/conservatives who thought those respective beliefs did not apply. I don't think the same is true of libertarians.

BS. You haven't shown any evidence of this. Unless you can bring up something that proves Libertarians an exception to the general rule of thumb, "Large groups are diverse and generallizing about them as ignorant is idiotic and sophmoric," you lose.

That's more ordinary partisanship than ideological dogma. I was referring more to principles that would govern a person's policy opinions.

Dogma is dogma Kandahar. For many, their party IS their ideology
 
Careful, remember that true libertarianism was a left-wing anarchist movement that has now become libertarian socialism and these people we call 'libertarians' are merely right-wingers that abandon any concept of freedom for capitalism as a an authority. This is why I find right-wing 'libertarianism' to be a bit incoherent due to their lack of a critique of capitalism with respect to individual liberty. A large assumption is made early on in ideological development that compromises the integrity of 'libertarianism'.

We see largely free market capitalism as the best tool for freedom economically. That isn't the issue here though
 
We see largely free market capitalism as the best tool for freedom economically. That isn't the issue here though

I think you may find through an analytical approach to capitalism that this is not really true. This may be better argued in another thread though, I suppose. I will make one later, but I am quite busy nowadays, so my commentary may be limited. The thread will be named something along the lines of 'critiques of captialism'. I see capitalism as a bandage I am willing to accept until a viable alternative is found, but its fundamental flaws should not go without notice.
 
We see largely free market capitalism as the best tool for freedom economically. That isn't the issue here though

In saying "we" think rather than "I" think, you tend to undermine any argument you might offer refuting the notion that you are dogmatic.

You are admitting you are indulging in a process groupthink rather than anything self-generated. .
 
In saying "we" think rather than "I" think, you tend to undermine any argument you might offer refuting the notion that you are dogmatic.

You are admitting you are indulging in a process groupthink rather than anything self-generated. .

I use the "we" as a general term. I never said that Libertarians think a like. I'm saying that most Libertarains feel this way for the same exact reason that most Liberals and Conservatives feel a certain way. I was stating that most people back up their arguments when arguing. In other wors I was simply saying that there is nothing exceptional about Libertarians.
 
I have never ate bulls**t, but there is a certain pleasant smell about it. Ah, I miss my late Grandfather's ranch in Montana. Sigh.
 
I find it interesting how you launch into the de rigueur catch phrases about "individual freedom and responsibiliy" and "statist policies" in order to assault another poster's supposed lack of substance.

Good old Lew Rockwell.com.

That's the part I forgot to mention. I've yet to meet more than 10 libertarians who haven't throw out the 'You hate the original America!' card.Fuck George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and all those other slave trading, murdering, same DNA as Obama and Bush dirt bags who wrote the pretty words Libertarians hold on to like a bible. It's like Libertarians think they'll get any points from my emotional glands by throwing out words like 'freedom' and 'statist' or going all 17th century on me and screaming about freedom and glory. Save me the top hat and tea-party. You're not a patriot. You're just a guy who doesn't get his way and is angry. That's it.

But Ethereal doesn't get it yet. He will when he becomes an adult. Hopefully it'll come when he has kids or has gone through problems bigger than getting drunk or finding a smart chick to screw. I mean I'm sure he already does. But it's nothing he can't handle on his own. It's one of those things you have to grow out of.

I use to be a pretty idealist Liberal in my teens. I mean I use to think that the war on terrorism was a complete fallacy meant to go after Muslims. I thought that all drugs should be legalized. I use to think the government had created AIDS as a way to kill black people. Then something really interesting happened. I had a kid, started owning things and making money. I mean it's interesting how stuff like that makes you grow up little by little even if it doesn't seem like it from the inside. I realized that there really are a sizable percentage of Muslims who seek to "Islamize" the West. I realized that not all drugs are the same or have the same effect. I realize that the reason blacks seem to have AIDS more is because there's a problem of promiscuity and there is no way any serious scientist would think it feasible to create a race based virus considering the non-existent difference there is in the DNA of a black man and a white man.

While Ethereal went on for 2 pages about creating a group on his ideology being the Teenagers of the political world I couldn't help but notice that this is exactly how I think my kid will react when she hears me call her immature if she wants to get nose rings a few years from now. I mean seriously. It's like she'll run around saying "oh yeah I'm so immature daddy! look at me waaa-waaa! Big baby!". It's an interesting foreshadowing of things to come for me.
 
Well, damn!

I took an online test and it stated that I was a Libertarian so I had "Libertarian" on my profile for the last 8 months. You people know me enough after all these years. What the hell am I?
 
. You people know me enough after all these years. What the hell am I?

I'd call you a pragmatic centrist, myself -- perhaps a bit of a conservative centrist.
 
Dumb is for the ignorant and this thread already has it representation.

As long as you need gasoline and oil based products there is no leaving the Middle East. Arabs have fought no less than 16 open wars or conflicts over the last forty years. These wars have effected oil production off and on.

What exactly do you think a nuclear Iran will do to Sunni Arab oil production? The trbes of Iraq have all but refused to allow the oil to flow because they were are too busy hating each other to care about NEUROSPORT's gasoline prices in the States. And what about external? The entire Cold War had a huge focus on the Middle East. The Soviets started the Cold War early by forcing America and Britian to insist on its leaving Iran and Turkey immediately after WWII. By the time Korea kicked off, the Soviets were building powerful military and had great influence in the oil rich Middle East with the Suez Canal being a center focus of control.

And before this we have the Nazis. Field-Marshall Rundstedt of Germany acknowledged that one of the factors leading to Germany's defeat was its own deficiency in oil, especially in the form of gasoline. The Allied forces used 7 billion barrels during WWII. "6" billion came from the U.S.

So if you think just leaving the Middle East will keep Americans safe and make everybody happy and the madness will simply stop then you may want to actually think before you type. One world war and a nuclear Cold War centered around oil resources. It would be a bit harder for NEUROSPORT to get his precious gasoline with our enemies controlling it wouldn't he?

we choose to be dependent on oil. the oil companies who run the government make sure the tax money goes to fighting their wars instead of developing alternative technologies.

we pay $3 per gallon here while in Brazil Ethanol is less than a dollar a gallon and its just as good as gas. we DON'T NEED OIL.

what we need is MONEY. and we're wasting the money on keeping people like you employed.
 
Most of the libertarians I encounter strike me in much the same way as do religious fundamentalists in that they are entirely dogmatic. Of course, many of the socialist/communists strike me in much the same way, but with all of them, their politics is pretty much just an act of selecting a ready made ideology and then treating it as inviolate.

Folks like that never really question much of anyting since they are such idealogues, and since they do not question they also do not learn. Everything just gets filtered through the political template they have chosen for themself.

because libertarians don't allow the media to run our minds for us. we have our own beliefs which are strong and we could give a rat's ass if your television thinks our views are not practical.

libertarians reject media brainwashing. liberals and conservatives alike embrace it. there are liberal pundits and conservative pundits but no libertarian pundits. all we need is history and constitution as our guide.
 
libertarians reject media brainwashing. liberals and conservatives alike embrace it.

You just got owned because you said that some documentary you watched claimed that GM foods were unhealthy, and you believed it without checking. Who is brainwashed by the media here?

I recommend you lay off the drugs and learn to think for yourself. :2wave:
 
Last edited:
LIBERTARIANS:
- The government can't do anything right.
- The free market is always efficient.
- It is fundamentally immoral to tax people to pay for government spending.
- An originalist interpretation of the Constitution is the only legitimate one.
- The government has no business telling people what to do, as long as they aren't harming others.

LIBERALS:
- ?

CONSERVATIVES:
- ?


I can't think of ANY ideological dogmas that would apply to the vast majority of liberals or conservatives

thats because you are completely soaked in propaganda. of course you're not aware of your own dogmatism.

if libertarians were the majority you wouldn't be able to identify what our dogmas were. you would think of them as common sense instead.
 
Yeah. Instead of critical thinking, it's usually the process of litmus tests.

"How should a libertarian react", instaed of "Does this make sense, intuitive or otherwise?".

libertarians are too wise to think. it is because idiots like err think that you know how to reason that we had folks like Hitler come to power. a good orator can convince the idiots ( who think you are very smart ) of anything. then they will think it makes sense. and anything repeated enough times will seem intuitive.

libertarians are above this crap. we know the truth. we have seen the light. we can't be bothered to listen to your ****ing arguments because we heard them all for decades and we know exactly what the purpose of those arguments and the results are.
 
GMO foods overall are not particularly harmful. The main problem with GMOs is the threat to biodiversity should they be introduced into the wild. GMOs are often modified such that they are able to better grow in a climate, grow faster, grow larger, etc. This results in a competition for resources that may ultimately result in the GMO out-competing the wild-type and other plants/animals. Should an epidemic occur that selectively affects a GMO food, it could be like potatoes in Ireland. In a world of GMOs, maintaining biodiversity is important.

Furthermore, it is the free-market that limits choice between unaltered or selectively breed foods and GMOs because of how cheap GMOs are to produce. If anything, the FDA makes unaltered and selectively breed foods more competitive by limiting the GMOs.

P.S. This may be a late post but it relates to something said earlier in the thread.

wrong. GMOs are specifically engineered in a way that makes it impossible for them to reproduce. you have to keep buying the new seed all the time. there is little chance that they will out-compete real food in the wild since they can't even exist outside a farm.
 
They are much more absolute than any comparable principle for liberals or conservatives. I tried to think of something analogous for liberals/conservatives...but the closest analogy I could come up with was "Government can help build a good society by helping the poor" for liberals, and "Government can help build a good society by helping families" for conservatives.

you are trying to think. that's commendable. i'll help you because i don't want you to hurt your little brain.

your dogmas are the same as those of libertarians but in reverse.

GOT THAT ?
 
wrong. GMOs are specifically engineered in a way that makes it impossible for them to reproduce. you have to keep buying the new seed all the time. there is little chance that they will out-compete real food in the wild since they can't even exist outside a farm.

That would ignore genetic mutation should it occur. There is also the worry of cross-pollination. Overall, I am not especially worried about GMOs as a risk-assessment is performed with respect to cross-pollination.
 
libertarians are above this crap. we know the truth. we have seen the light. we can't be bothered to listen to your ****ing arguments because we heard them all for decades and we know exactly what the purpose of those arguments and the results are.

Do you realize that you sound exactly like a religious fundamentalist?
 
You just got owned because you said that some documentary you watched claimed that GM foods were unhealthy, and you believed it without checking. Who is brainwashed by the media here?

I recommend you lay off the drugs and learn to think for yourself. :2wave:

i watch a lot of documentaries. my opinion is not a function of any one of them but of all the information i have been exposed to.
 
Do you realize that you sound exactly like a religious fundamentalist?

there is one huge difference. christian fundamentalists are brought up as such from early childhood. they are brainwashed since before their brain is even developed.

i accepted libertarianism when i was already a college graduate after already having been exposed to other ideologies including communism ( i grew up in the soviet union ). it wasn't forced on me by parents or teachers. i expended a considerable amount of energy to FIND IT for myself.

i kept rejecting the ideologies that were being pushed on me because they didn't fit with either evidence or logic. i kept looking for something that was true and with Libertarianism i finally found it.
 
Last edited:
You know what I love about Libertarians?

They don't want to pay any taxes or want the govt to spend any money, but they sure as hell:

-Send their kids to public school
-Drive on the roads
-Visit national parks
-Call 911 and take rides in the ambulance
-Accept Farm subsidies
-Depend on the military and police to protect them

etc, etc, etc.

...Fools who depend on the GOVT just like everyone else
 
there is one huge difference. christian fundamentalists are brought up as such from early childhood. they are brainwashed since before their brain is even developed.

Not the ones who were "born again."

NEUROSPORT said:
i accepted libertarianism when i was already a college graduate after already having been exposed to other ideologies including communism ( i grew up in the soviet union ). it wasn't forced on me by parents or teachers. i expended a considerable amount of energy to FIND IT for myself.

Re-read this and substitute the word "Christ" for "libertarianism." You are a religious fundamentalist to the core. You've merely substituted the Gospel According to John for the Gospel According to Ayn. :2wave:

NEUROSPORT said:
i kept rejecting the ideologies that were being pushed on me because they didn't fit with either evidence or logic. i kept looking for something that was true and with Libertarianism i finally found it.

Is that what your documentaries told you? Good thing you avoided being brainwashed by the media. :lol:
 
there is one huge difference. christian fundamentalists are brought up as such from early childhood. they are brainwashed since before their brain is even developed.

i accepted libertarianism when i was already a college graduate after already having been exposed to other ideologies including communism ( i grew up in the soviet union ). it wasn't forced on me by parents or teachers. i expended a considerable amount of energy to FIND IT for myself.

i kept rejecting the ideologies that were being pushed on me because they didn't fit with either evidence or logic. i kept looking for something that was true and with Libertarianism i finally found it.

Keep in mind that the USSR was not true communism but rather coordinatorism waving the red flag to gain the support of the masses. Be sure you are not ignoring critiques of capitalism.
 
Is that what your documentaries told you? Good thing you avoided being brainwashed by the media. :lol:

i try to be critical of information i take in, even when it comes from the sources i respect.

as far as mainstream media - their **** is not even worth my time sifting through so i don't use it at all.
 
Back
Top Bottom