View Poll Results: Should illegal aliens get amnesty

Voters
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  • Yes, make them citizens with no extra requirements

    5 14.71%
  • Yes, but make them pay a form of reparations to earn citizenship

    4 11.76%
  • No, they are criminals

    22 64.71%
  • other/don't know

    3 8.82%
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Thread: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

  1. #61
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    This doesn't mean squat for someone like my sister in law. She was brought here as a teen. Her sister is legal, she is not. Her sister has a valid driver's license and social security card and she can not get one. Her sister has a decent job and she is forced to take jobs under the table on the cheap. Her family is here. Her mother, sister, nephews, aunt, etc. There is nothing in Mexico to send her back to. She has been here since she was 15! You would send her back?

    Folks like her need amnesty. They're completely f-ck'd due to their parents choices.

    She has an immigration lawyer who has been working with her on her case for over a year now. It's possible she may STILL be denied citizenship despite having been here since 15, despite being married to my brother, despite having a legal sister, legal nephews, a legal aunt, etc.

    It's a tad ridiculous. And it's fallacious to insist folks like her mother should have just followed the law and migrated legally. Unless you are a highly skilled educated person who already has a job lined up in the states they really make it all but impossible for you to legally migrate here from Mexico and further south. Best to just come here illegally and have as many of your offspring born here as possible.

    Look how hard they're making it for her! She has a husband for cripes sake who has shown he can support her. She is not on welfare and won't be. She works under the table only cause she can't currently do anything else. She'd rather not. She drives illegally 'cause she can't get a license. She is trying to sort it all out, trying to make it right, trying to correct a wrong her parents created, and they are giving her grief. It's b.s. really.
    Time to be cold here. Don't like it but it is a must.

    It doesn't matter that her mother dragged her here. I am sorry for her situation as it's not really her fault. But the law is the law and immigration law is not put up for no reason. Her folks can teach her what she needs to know to live in the country her and her folks are from. By her working under the table for cheaper than what businesses are allowed to pay citizens she is taking jobs away from citizens who need a job to stay off the streets. We have our own problems to deal with without adding the problems of another countries people to it.

    On the softer side I would let her stay for two reasons and two reasons only.

    1: She is married to an American citizen.
    2: She has no criminal record. (assuming here that she doesn't..if she does then deport her)
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  2. #62
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well for starters we appear to be incapable of enforcing them.
    No we are not.If laws are not being enforced it is because those in office refuse to have them enforced. Look at Oklahoma HB 1804 aka the Tax Payer Protection act, we no longer have an illegal immigration as bad as we used. Most illegals fled Oklahoma.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #63
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I'm opposed to amnesty for the sake of amnesty. All that does is encourage more folks to come here illegally. However, if a pathway to citizenship was the compromise it took to pass some real anti-illegal immigration measures, then it would be worth it. Here's what I'd expect such a compromise to look like

    1. Increased border patrols, possibly a fence if its determined to be effective and cost efficient.

    2. Elimination of all government assistance for illegal immigration. No welfare, no food stamps, no public education. Emergency life saving medical care would be the one exception, and only because trying to verify citizenship in a life saving situation would create more problems than it would solve.

    3. Local law enforcement empowered to arrest and detain illegal aliens they come into contact with. No more illegals with three DUIs still out on the road. If an illegal alien is arrested on a minor charge, he should be handed over to the proper authorities for immediate deportation. For major charges, they should have a trial, serve their time, and then be deported.

    4. Harsh penalties on those who hire illegal immigrants. If we remove the incentive to hire illegals, we remove the incentive to come here.

    On the amnesty side, here's what I'd be willing allow a pathway to citizenship under the following conditions.

    1. Clean criminal record.

    2. Legally employed.

    3. Able to speak English.

    4. Back of the line.

    5. Pay a reasonable fine.

    I'm not a fan of the requirement they return to their country of origin, as that's just not realistic. If you make the pathway to citizenship too burdensome, then no one will utilize it and then there's no point in offering it.

    I am not a fan of any illegal immigration compromise. The only thing a compromise means is they give amnesty to the illegals, make us pay for their legals fees and ignore everything else. We got burned on a so-called immigration compromise before.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #64
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I'm opposed to amnesty for the sake of amnesty. All that does is encourage more folks to come here illegally. However, if a pathway to citizenship was the compromise it took to pass some real anti-illegal immigration measures, then it would be worth it. Here's what I'd expect such a compromise to look like

    1. Increased border patrols, possibly a fence if its determined to be effective and cost efficient.

    2. Elimination of all government assistance for illegal immigration. No welfare, no food stamps, no public education. Emergency life saving medical care would be the one exception, and only because trying to verify citizenship in a life saving situation would create more problems than it would solve.

    3. Local law enforcement empowered to arrest and detain illegal aliens they come into contact with. No more illegals with three DUIs still out on the road. If an illegal alien is arrested on a minor charge, he should be handed over to the proper authorities for immediate deportation. For major charges, they should have a trial, serve their time, and then be deported.

    4. Harsh penalties on those who hire illegal immigrants. If we remove the incentive to hire illegals, we remove the incentive to come here.

    On the amnesty side, here's what I'd be willing allow a pathway to citizenship under the following conditions.

    1. Clean criminal record.

    2. Legally employed.

    3. Able to speak English.

    4. Back of the line.

    5. Pay a reasonable fine.

    I'm not a fan of the requirement they return to their country of origin, as that's just not realistic. If you make the pathway to citizenship too burdensome, then no one will utilize it and then there's no point in offering it.

    i'd lke to add a #6: Streamline and quicken the immigration process so people are even less tempted to come/stay illegally.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

  5. #65
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well for starters we appear to be incapable of enforcing them.
    partly because we've chosen to focus on the illegals instead of the people who employ them. illegal immigration is declining right now, no jobs. that tells us what we need to do to at least staunch the flow.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #66
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    I'm just saying that Generation X-Box needs to get off their asses and work, so we don't need to import foreigners to do the seasonal work that their lazy asses should be doing.
    as long as we don't punish employers for hiring illegals, there's no reason for them to stop.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  7. #67
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    as long as we don't punish employers for hiring illegals, there's no reason for them to stop.
    I agree with that. Throw them in prison and use assets forfeiture laws to treat them no different than a drug dealer who profits from illegal activities or some other criminal who profits from illegal activities or use their funds for illegal activities. If those who hire illegals know that that punishment could equal a loss of property and other assets instead of a measly fine then they would be less likely to take the chance of hiring illegals.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #68
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I agree with that. Throw them in prison and use assets forfeiture laws to treat them no different than a drug dealer who profits from illegal activities or some other criminal who profits from illegal activities or use their funds for illegal activities. If those who hire illegals know that that punishment could equal a loss of property and other assets instead of a measly fine then they would be less likely to take the chance of hiring illegals.
    i'm for amnesty, btw. on a practical and fiscal level, we should let non criminals stay and begin a path to citizenship. we should also strengthen our borders and take a good look at our current immigration quotas.

    i'm not so sure i would use such draconian measures against the employers. hefty fines is a good start.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  9. #69
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Yes make them pay reperations , and all back taxes.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not discussing ethics, I am discussing legalities. Entering the country illegally is a crime. There is a legal path to citizenship. I believe in rewarding those who adhere to our laws, and punish those who do not adhere to our laws. Your whole Jim Crow law thing is simply misdirection.
    You are correct.

    Regardless of any ethical argument, the United States, as a sovereign state, has a right to decide who it will allow into the country, who it will allow to become citizens, the circumstances of that allowance, and the disabilities of non-citizens.

    Now, someone -can- argue that the law is unethical, and that there is no moral imperative to follow an unethical law, but that argument, which must be supported by the person making it will be, at best, subjective -- and, in any event, does not legally invalidate the law.

    You may think that how I exercise my right is unethical, but that does not negate said exercise.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 10-01-09 at 11:42 AM.

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