View Poll Results: Should illegal aliens get amnesty

Voters
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  • Yes, make them citizens with no extra requirements

    5 14.71%
  • Yes, but make them pay a form of reparations to earn citizenship

    4 11.76%
  • No, they are criminals

    22 64.71%
  • other/don't know

    3 8.82%
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Thread: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

  1. #21
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I doubt there are many Generation X-Boxers who are willing to pick strawberries in the sweltering sun for a couple dollars an hour.
    If you make it several dollars an hour or more and cut off any welfare benefits then they will pick strawberries in the sweltering sun.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I doubt there are many Generation X-Boxers who are willing to pick strawberries in the sweltering sun for a couple dollars an hour.
    20 years ago when I was 15 I picked corn on the local farm from 6:30 am to 11 took a break then I did menial farm-tasks till 4.

    I made $3/hr.

    It was all under the table & I'm thankful for it, because it taught me a lesson on work-ethic & the value of money earned.

  3. #23
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    . . .? Aside from the fact that many Latin American illegal immigrants are Amerindian mestizos whose poor economic conditions have been inherited from a violent European invasion and colonization of America and the centuries of racial segregation and discrimination that were to follow, recent history has been marked by governmental establishment of trade liberalization and the expansion of U.S.-based agricultural companies into Mexico that has uprooted and displaced farmers and associated laborers into urban areas, and then into the U.S. itself due to the vastly inequitable wage differentials between the U.S. and Mexico.
    This may be the longest sentence I've seen all year.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 10-01-09 at 12:30 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Immigration both legal and illegal is primarily caused by the displacement of agricultural laborers and those uprooted by that displacement in Mexico, which was itself caused by the expansion of trade liberalization.
    Focus on immigrants themselves is a mere red herring designed to function as a distraction from the reality that the wealthy financiers that have invested in this liberalization effort are far more responsible for illegal immigration than corn farmers are. This in turn leads to ignorance of the facts that there are unjustly inequitable wage differentials between the U.S. and Mexico and that there is a disproportionately high demand for unskilled labor in the U.S., and the manipulation of public policy according to the interests of the financial class..

    Irrelevant to the issue of illegal immigration.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 10-01-09 at 12:29 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    We have no reason at all to import a lower-class of seasonal workers from other countries while Generation X-Box has the highest unemployment rate in history for young people.
    Of course there are reasons. Unemployment will be a perpetual element of capitalism because it's needed as a disciplinary stick to coerce laborers into not shirking inside the workplace. And the U.S. in particular has a disproportionately high demand for unskilled labor. I'd certainly favor examining these fundamental problems in our economic structure before focusing on immigration, but too many have been deluded by propaganda to consider these issues.

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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    This may be the longest sentence I've seen all year.
    And that reply may consist of less substance than any I've seen all year.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Irrelevant.
    Oh no! Oftencold's crown has been stripped!

  7. #27
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If you make it several dollars an hour or more
    Why SHOULD it be several dollars an hour more, when there are people willing to do it for less?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage
    and cut off any welfare benefits then they will pick strawberries in the sweltering sun.
    I don't think very many young people aren't working because they're on welfare. At least, not GOVERNMENT welfare. Parental welfare is another story.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    20 years ago when I was 15 I picked corn on the local farm from 6:30 am to 11 took a break then I did menial farm-tasks till 4.

    I made $3/hr.

    It was all under the table & I'm thankful for it, because it taught me a lesson on work-ethic & the value of money earned.
    Good for you. So why don't you support other people who are willing to work just as hard as you did for the same wage? Why do you instead side with the spoiled kids of "Generation X-Box," as you described them, very few of whom are willing to perform such menial work for such low wages?
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  9. #29
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You haven't made an argument yet; you've simply been repeating statements rather than claims. Simply droning that illegal entry is against the law over and over again fails to actually examine any logical or ethical basis behind the construction of that law, and accordingly, whether it's the most rational public policy to maintain. I'd say that there are fairly compelling reasons why it is not.
    You have not made a case there is anything wrong with the law. I certainly do not believe there is anything wrong with immigration laws.

  10. #30
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    Re: Illegal Aliens and Amnesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why SHOULD it be several dollars an hour more,
    Supply and demand is a two way street. It just doesn't apply to businesses. It also applies to the legal labor pool.


    when there are people willing to do it for less?
    If those people are here illegally then they do not count. What matters is if legal American workers will work those jobs. If they can not get a legal American worker to do those jobs for under minimum wage,then guess what that job is worth more than minimum wage.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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