View Poll Results: Which Libertarian Issues Do You Agree With

Voters
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  • Laissez Faire capitalism

    19 38.78%
  • End drug prohibition

    37 75.51%
  • avid interventionism in foreign policy

    17 34.69%
  • End foreign aid

    25 51.02%
  • End gun bans

    31 63.27%
  • Deregulate healthcare

    19 38.78%
  • Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)

    17 34.69%
  • End welfare

    20 40.82%
  • Allow opting out of Social Security

    28 57.14%
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Thread: Libertarian Issues

  1. #61
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't agree.

    It (4GW) has already happened on a small scale.

    Waco -> OKC

    I practically guarantee you there are individuals in the government who do think about such things, and whether under certain circumstances, certain governmental actions might provoke hundreds of OKC's or other 4GW events.

    (Understand that I am in no wise endorsing McVeigh's actions, simply pointing out that he said OKC was in retaliation for Waco.)
    Define "4GW" please.

    Now, this is where we are going way in different directions. Waco was a large scale resisting arrest situation to my mind, and OKC was a terrorist act. Neither was an insurrection to my way of thinking.

  2. #62
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    By the way, this thread is fascinating in the directions it goes, always seems like we are steering offtopic, but in different ways.

  3. #63
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Define "4GW" please.

    Now, this is where we are going way in different directions. Waco was a large scale resisting arrest situation to my mind, and OKC was a terrorist act. Neither was an insurrection to my way of thinking.
    4GW is "Fourth Generation Warfare". It is a collection of methodologies for resistance/insurrection against a militarily superior opponent. We are currently facing a crude version of it in Iraq, Afganistan, and against Al-Queda. It can include such things as assassination, guerilla warfare, and acts typically considered terrorism. The objective is to force a superior enemy to give up though wearing him down and weakening his will to fight.

    From a lot of the opinions expressed on DP about Iraq and Afganistan, I'd say it is working against us fairly well. (insert ironic frowning smilie here).

    OKC was an individual, or more likely (despite what we've been told) a small group, retaliating against what he/they percieved as a governmental atrocity. Imagine related actions on a much wider scale (hundreds or thousands of "cells"), and that is one possibility by which an oppressed populace might resist a tyranny that possessed greater military force.

    Again, I am not endorsing or approving such tactics, just noting them as an example of how this issue is more complex than many people realize.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    A view of armed insurrection as exclusively something like Bunker Hill or the other early incident (whose name escapes me just now), some vision of hundreds of citizens lining the street bearing rifles and daring the military to roll over them, is prosaic but would represent extremely poor tactics for asymmetrical warfare.


    (and now it is time to listen to a little Norah Jones and go to bed. )

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #65
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Like others have said, it's a matter of degree for me. I generally support moving in the direction these positions outline, but not taking them to the full extreme that the folks at the LP would like to. I'll break it down by each topic ..

    Laissez Faire capitalism

    In general, yes, but I do recognize there are market failures and externalities the market fails to take into account. I favor regulation like safety standards, anti-trust laws, and some others that aren't coming to mind right now.

    End drug prohibition

    I'm 100% for the legalization of marijuana. I have yet to hear a rational reason why it is an illegal substance and tobbacco and alcohol are not. For harder drugs, I'm not entirely certain legalization is the best solution, but I am certain our current policy of "war" on drugs isn't working and serves as a colossal waste of tax dollars and strengthens the criminal cartels that control the drug trade.

    Avoid interventionism in foreign policy

    In foreign policy, I'm a realist. America should act in America's self interest. I do believe most of the time, our self interest is served through a non-interventionist policy, but certain extreme circumstances could arise to warrant interventionist actions. Those actions should be carefully considered in terms of both the short term and long term consequences.

    End foreign aid

    Yes. Usually it ends up in the pockets of dictators anyway. America should look after its own. I'm not opposed to humanitarian relief for victims of natural disasters, but that would be the only exception I think.

    End gun bans

    Yes. The right to bear arms is as essential as the right to free speech, if not more so. While its true I don't think we're anywhere near the point were a widespread civillian insurrection is likely or necessary, the possibility of one is an important check of government tyranny.

    Deregulate healthcare

    I'd favor some deregulation, but not all. In general, I think government regulation should be used to fix market failures or to account for hidden externality costs. Going beyond that, we often have unintended consequences that make the problem we were trying to fix even worse.

    Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)

    No. This goes to my realist outlook on foriegn policy. The U.S. economy is not equipped to take in an unlimited number of unskilled immigrant laborers. Furthermore, in this time and place, there is also a security issue. We have a right, as a soveriegn nation, to control our borders and know who is coming into our nation.

    That said, I'm not opposed to a pathway to citizenship for current illegals (under certain conditions), if that was the necessary political compromise to put some real teeth into preventing future illegal immigration. I'm also a supporter of legal immigration and believe our immigration quotas should set based on our economic needs.

    End welfare

    I'm more about reforming welfare. I'm strongly opposed to able bodied individuals being long term dependents of welfare and other government programs. I think welfare for able bodied folks should be temporary and constructed with the goal of transforming recipients into prodoctive citizens with employable skills.

    I'm not opposed to basic provisions for the truly disabled. I think history has shown that private charity is insufficient and providing a safety net for those who have no other options (not able bodied bums) provides increased stability in society.

    Allow opting out of Social Security

    Yes! Please, please, please let me get out of thsi horrrible system. I read a study years ago that my generation (Gen X) is more likely to believe in aliens than to believe we'll collect our share of social security. I don't believe in either, but aliens seem more probable to me.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    I support just about everything up there, with two exceptions. I'm fine with foreign aid. I also don't think welfare should be eliminated, but severely scaled down. I'm on board for everything else.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I support just about everything up there, with two exceptions. I'm fine with foreign aid. I also don't think welfare should be eliminated, but severely scaled down. I'm on board for everything else.
    Thanks for the reply, and your new avatar scares me.

  8. #68
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Thanks for the reply, and your new avatar scares me.
    To be fair, I've got a solid amount of Psilocybin in my system at this moment in time and it seemed highly appropriate.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  9. #69
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    By the way, did I do ok at getting the capital "L" Libertarian parties platform covered with the basics? Is there other issues that capital "L" types consider more important, or how about little "l" types?

  10. #70
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    To be fair, I've got a solid amount of Psilocybin in my system at this moment in time and it seemed highly appropriate.
    And I gave up drugs years ago. Shrooms made my vision grainy usually, and almost always made me stutter(which was odd, no one else I know had that problem).

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