View Poll Results: Which Libertarian Issues Do You Agree With

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  • Laissez Faire capitalism

    19 38.78%
  • End drug prohibition

    37 75.51%
  • avid interventionism in foreign policy

    17 34.69%
  • End foreign aid

    25 51.02%
  • End gun bans

    31 63.27%
  • Deregulate healthcare

    19 38.78%
  • Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)

    17 34.69%
  • End welfare

    20 40.82%
  • Allow opting out of Social Security

    28 57.14%
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Thread: Libertarian Issues

  1. #41
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Here we have examples of statements rather than claims. Actual logical argument or evidence as to the ethical nature of immigration prohibitions or their elimination is not advanced; instead, known facts about existing immigration law are repeated. "Illegal immigration is wrong because it's illegal."

    Illegal immigration is wrong because it is a violation of our national sovereignty.

  2. #42
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    "Laissez Faire capitalism"

    While I favor far, far less government regulation and spending. I don't agree with total laissez faire capitalism. For instance, I support traffic laws, funding for local roads, unemployment insurance (in a reduced form), disaster relief, and financial assistance to the handicapped

    "End drug prohibition"

    This is in my opinion, the most destructive Government Program in the past 50 years in the US. End it NOW.

    "avid interventionism in foreign policy"

    This is where I go away from most Libertarians. I think that while the Iraqi invasion was stupid, that we should remain in Iraq until the job is done. I support the Afghan War, an active foreign policy, and a strong military.

    "End foreign aid"

    Free trade will do far more good. Most aid does little more than enrich dictators. However, I'm not opposed to direct relief for things like natural disasters.

    "End gun bans"

    Yes, the government should not have a monopoly on military force

    "Deregulate healthcare"

    Hell yes, I've stated my plans on healthcare many, many times here

    "Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)"

    Make immigration restrictions far, far more lax. Don't keep the illegals underground, poor, and leeching our entitlements and welfare systems

    "End welfare"

    Mostly yes. It should be reduced over time and limited unemployment insurance and help for the handicapped should remain. However, I consider the War on Poverty an abject failure that, along with the War on Drugs and our objectionally deplorable public school system, has lead to significant urban decay

    "Allow opting out of Social Security"

    Privatize the Ponzi Scheme.

  3. #43
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I believe a sovereign nation has the right to maintain the integrity of its borders.
    "Having the right" is not at all the same thing as whether or not it's a good idea to do so, in this particular case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    I also believe immigrants should culturally assimilate before becoming citizens.
    This has never happened and probably never will. The second generation is always better assimilated than the first, but the first can contribute its own unique perspective.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Thanks DrunkenAsparagus, I was hoping for more like your post, and less battling over illegals(though I am right in that battle myself, which I guess makes me a hypocrite).

  5. #45
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Latinos don't vote as a bloc. Approximately 40% of them voted for George Bush in 2004. 32% of them voted for John McCain in 2008.

    And in neither election were there any border states where the election was close enough to sway the outcome. Except for maybe New Mexico in 2004...but since Bush won that state, one would expect him to win by an even larger margin if there was an epidemic of illegal aliens voting.
    I was referring to a potential situation, not necessarily to the Mexican issue itself, as a basis for a nation controlling its borders and immigration.



    Demographics are constantly changing. The United States has always been a mixing of cultures. Each wave of immigrants has adapted to American culture, while adding their unique input. What is wrong with that?
    For the most part, these changes have been gradual. Illegal immigration has been massive for some years now...make it legal and watch it become a flood. Any given society can only withstand a certain amount of change coming so fast before the ties that bind that society break.

    Uhh it looks to me like post #18 was the only other post on this subject that you've made in this thread. And I responded to each and every point.
    Ignore was a poorly chosen word. I meant you marginalized and shrugged off issues that I know to be significant.

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  6. #46
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Forgiveness of a crime is something that we can, occasionally, offer to our citizens. We should not turn a blind eye to the crimes of prospective citizens. To put it another way, there should be definite requirements for a foreign person to become a citizen, and a not unreasonable one is to not have committed crimes in this country.
    Sure, if they've committed real crimes where there is actually a victim, by all means deport them. Illegal immigration does not fall into that category.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Illegal immigration is wrong because it is a violation of our national sovereignty.
    Entrenched national divisions are mechanisms utilized by the ruling class to delude sections of the native working class and prevent their victories in class conflict; the opposition of U.S.-born laborers to immigration is sustained because they've been fed propaganda about immigrants despite the flimsy or nonexistent empirical basis of it. Accordingly, there's no actual substance in this comment; no specific ethical or economic dilemma posed by illegal immigration is mentioned.

  8. #48
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Anyway, this is supposed to be about libertarian issues in a more general sense, not a whole freaking thread about illegal immigration... so let's talk about some other libertarian issue then.

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  9. #49
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Illegal immigration is wrong because it is a violation of our national sovereignty.
    This is just a variation on "It's wrong because it's illegal." What aspect of our sovereignty is being violated besides, of course, immigration law?
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  10. #50
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    Re: Libertarian Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sure, if they've committed real crimes where there is actually a victim, by all means deport them. Illegal immigration does not fall into that category.
    We are not going to see eye to eye on this, but I think we at least see where we draw the line. To me, the fact that they chose, willingly, to violate our laws means they should not be allowed to stay here as a citizen or on a work visa or whatever.

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