View Poll Results: Should getting a sex change be legal?

Voters
119. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it should be legal

    96 80.67%
  • No, it should be illegal

    20 16.81%
  • I don't know

    3 2.52%
Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 195

Thread: Should getting a sex change be legal?

  1. #11
    Guru
    The Baron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in Dixie
    Last Seen
    11-26-17 @ 11:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,803

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    I could never understand how doctors could do this.

    If you have someone with a perfectly healthy and functioning physical body and has a mind telling them that they are the wrong sex it seems to me that the problem is not with the body but with the mind.

    It seems to me that you would then want to treat the mind with counseling, therapy, etc. and not alter the body.

    But doctors have decided to ignore the root-cause of the problem (the mind) and mutilate what is healthy and normal (the body).

    Apparently all of the money is in performing the surgery.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  2. #12
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:12 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,331
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    I could never understand how doctors could do this.

    If you have someone with a perfectly healthy and functioning physical body and has a mind telling them that they are the wrong sex it seems to me that the problem is not with the body but with the mind.

    It seems to me that you would then want to treat the mind with counseling, therapy, etc. and not alter the body.

    But doctors have decided to ignore the root-cause of the problem (the mind) and mutilate what is healthy and normal (the body).

    Apparently all of the money is in performing the surgery.
    You are making assumptions here, such as the mind is what is in error, and that "curing" the mind is possible or likely. Do you use the same argument against cosmetic surgery?

  3. #13
    Guru
    The Baron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in Dixie
    Last Seen
    11-26-17 @ 11:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,803

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    "You are making assumptions here, such as the mind is what is in error, and that "curing" the mind is possible or likely. Do you use the same argument against cosmetic surgery?" - Redress

    I'm not making any assumptions. People wanting to transition from one sex to another believe that they were born the wrong sex (my words). Their bodies are normal and healthy.

    It is what the believe about themselves (their minds) that are in error.

    As such, it seems logical to me that what you would want to treat is the mind.

    And cosmetic surgery is another topic entirely.


    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  4. #14
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,184

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    I have some serious reservations about this surgery.

    For one thing, it does not make you an actual man or an actual woman. "Transmen" do not produce sperm and don't experience normal erectile function, "transwomen" do not ovulate or have a period. Neither can reproduce normally.

    The results of such surgeries are not exactly comparable to "original equipment", and complications (including life threatening ones) can occur.

    The basic procedures have similarities (except in extreme cases of micro/macropenis), although surgery on cisgendered men can be simpler, since the urethra still ends in the front of the genital area, whereas the urethras of trans men end near the vaginal opening and have to be lengthened considerably. The lengthening of the urethra is a difficult part of total phalloplasty, and also the one where complications often occur.

    With all types of phalloplasty in trans men, the labia (see vulva) are united to form a scrotum, where prosthetic testicles can be inserted.

    An erectile prosthesis can be inserted into the neophallus to replace the erectile tissue and enable sexual penetration. This is usually done in separate surgery for healing reasons. There are several types of erectile prostheses, ranging from malleable rod-like medical devices so the neo-penis can either stand up or hang down, to elaborate pumping systems. Penile implants require a neophallus of appropriate length and volume in order to be a safe option. The long term success rates of implants in a reconstructed penis have been poor. Good sensation of the reconstruction can help reduce the risk for the implant eventually eroding through the skin. It is for this reason that living bone was first used inside the reconstruction. Long-term follow-up studies from Germany and Turkey of more than 10 years now prove that these reconstructions maintain their stiffness without late complications.
    Methodology:

    This technique involves using a free graft of tissue that is removed from its original place, rolled up, with a part of it forming the new urethra, and grafted to its new place between the thighs. In the past, the donor site was usually the inner side of the forearm but sometimes the upper arm, leg or abdomen. The arm flap operation is easier to perform but requires an implant and has a cosmetically undesirable scar on the exposed area of the arm. The lower leg operation takes along with the skin a piece of the small bone of the leg. Like the appendix, humans can live fine without it. The scar in the leg is easily covered with a sock and hidden from view. These are the two operations which are used most commonly today in the world. They have normal skin on them and can have good cosmetic results. Skin grafted muscle flaps have fallen from popularity. The grafts have a less natural appearance and are less likely to maintain an implant long term.
    Doesn't that just sound wonderful?

    Sensation is retained through the clitoris which is at the base of the neo-phallus; also, often a large nerve in the graft is connected to nerves either from the clitoris or other nearby nerves. In addition, nerves from the graft and the tissue it has been attached to usually connect after a while, thereby allowing additional sensation.
    Doesn't sound as if the sensations would be at all comparable to the real thing.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery]Sex reassignment surgery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Apparently things can be a bit iffy for "transwomen" also:

    The outcome of neovaginoplasty is variable. It usually allows sexual intercourse, although sensation is not always present.
    ...
    During Vaginoplasty "the right spermatic cord is clamped and ligated. The primary incision is continued up the ventral side of the shaft of the penis. [Then] the anterior flap is developed from the skin of the penis. The urethra is dissected from the shaft. The corpora cavernosa are separated to assure a minimal stump. [After that] the anterior flap [is] perforated to position the urethral meatus. The skin flaps are sutured and placed in position in the vaginal cavity. [When that is completed], the preservation of the vaginal cavity is assured by the use of a suitable vaginal form."[citation needed] Finally the vagina is complete.

    When a patient receives Labiaplasty, a frequently used procedure, labia and a clitoral hood are created. This is often performed a few months after the first part of the procedure. In some cases, labiaplasty is an elective procedure to improve appearance after a one-stage Vaginoplasty. Labiaplasty (2000).

    Even after SRS there are many complications that range from minor to major. There are the minor complications which include infections, bleeding and loss of grafted skin.[citation needed] "The more serious complications include major infections or bleeding, and damage to the bladder. There is a possibility of damage to the prostate or major nerves during the dissection to form the vagina."[citation needed]

    While undergoing this surgery the most severe complication is the formation of a vaginal-rectal fistula. This occurs when the doctor accidentally cuts through the rectal wall during vaginal cavity dissection. As a result, excrement bypasses the anal stricture and exits through the vagina. This prevents proper healing. This process can be remedied through a long process of surgeries and many months of wearing of a colostomy bag. Because of the embarrassment, the complication often goes untreated, leading to serious infections.[1]
    Some intresting historical bits...

    The earliest identifiable recipient of Male to Female Sex Reassignment Surgery was Lili Elbe in Berlin, in 1930-1931. This was started with the removal of the male sex organs and was supervised by Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld. Lili went on to have four more subsequent operations that included an unsuccessful uterine transplant, the rejection of which resulted in death. An earlier known recipient of this was Magnus Hirschfeld's housekeeper,[13] but her identity is unclear at this time.

    Filmmaker Tanaz Eshaghian discovered that the Iranian government's "solution" for homosexuality is to endorse, and fully pay for, sex reassignment surgery.[14] The leader of Iran's Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini, issued a fatwa declaring sex reassignment surgery permissible for “diagnosed transsexuals.”[14] Eshaghian's documentary, Be Like Others, chronicles a number of stories of Iranian gay men who feel transitioning is the only way to avoid further persecution, jail and/or execution.[14] The head of Iran's main transsexual organization, Maryam Khatoon Molkara—who convinced Khomeini to issue the fatwa on transsexuality—confirmed that some people who undergo operations are gay rather than transsexual.[15]

    Thailand performs the most sex reassignment surgeries, followed by Iran

    Apparently many nations require a lot of counceling before this SRS is performed...and I think that is a good thing. It seems to me that it is a matter of perspective whether a man made into a woman is an "actual woman" or just a man who has been surgically mutilated and is now neither "fish nor fowl", entirely.

    Should it be illegal? I think for anyone under 18, it probably should be. It is a body-warping decision that is potentially life-threatening and impossible to truly "put back the way it was".

    G.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #15
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,184

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    "You are making assumptions here, such as the mind is what is in error, and that "curing" the mind is possible or likely. Do you use the same argument against cosmetic surgery?" - Redress

    I'm not making any assumptions. People wanting to transition from one sex to another believe that they were born the wrong sex (my words). Their bodies are normal and healthy.

    It is what the believe about themselves (their minds) that are in error.

    As such, it seems logical to me that what you would want to treat is the mind.

    And cosmetic surgery is another topic entirely.



    Thank you. That is also my opinion...and until such time as some identifiable, inborn physiological (ie not psychological only) cause is identified that makes a person transgendered, I would have to consider it a form of mental illness.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #16
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanitas View Post
    Follow-up question:

    Whether you think it should be legal or illegal, do you morally agree with sex changes?

    (maybe in a unbiased situation where sex changes are not legal or illegal)
    Who cares? It's not your body so it's none of your business.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    To make it illegal would be to give the government the power to decide what your mental state is and isn't, overriding the psychiatric profession. People who want sex changes usually have to have extensive counseling to ensure that they are genuinely transgendered. You can't just get them willy nilly.

    I find it ironic that conservatives who are opposed to something like sex change - which, by the way, is paid for out of pocket usually - are simultaneously complaining tht the government is ruining our lives. So, what you are saying is, in this instance, you are okay with the government invading the personal lives of others in order to decide what they can or cannot do, but in other instances it's not okay. Give me a break.

    Never let the ignorant decide what is right. They lack both understanding and virtue of their own position.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    11-01-09 @ 01:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    829

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    You own your life - your mind, your body, your reputation, the consequences of your actions, etc. Want to cut off your arms and legs? Fine. Want to cut off your head? Fine, whatever. Just don't bleed on other people's property without their permission.

  9. #19
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:12 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,331
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    "You are making assumptions here, such as the mind is what is in error, and that "curing" the mind is possible or likely. Do you use the same argument against cosmetic surgery?" - Redress

    I'm not making any assumptions. People wanting to transition from one sex to another believe that they were born the wrong sex (my words). Their bodies are normal and healthy.

    It is what the believe about themselves (their minds) that are in error.

    As such, it seems logical to me that what you would want to treat is the mind.

    And cosmetic surgery is another topic entirely.


    The problem is more accurately that the bodies sex is not in agreement with the mind's sexual identity. The solution to this problem that is most effective with certain people is to change the body. What you are suggesting is analogous of treating people for homosexuality.

    Cosmetic surgery is a perfect example of why this should be legal, and is moral. Cosmetic surgery is changing the body simply because the mind sees a trouble with the body. There is an inherent risk to the surgeries, and is in some cases rather serious surgery. The justification for these surgeries is much less than it is for sex change surgery.

  10. #20
    Irrelevant Pissant

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    03-13-14 @ 07:55 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,194

    Re: Should getting a sex change be legal?

    I of course do not think the government should be at all involved. I could see how many doctors would see it as a betrayal of the Hippocratic oath, as the procedure is both elective and potentially, if not definitely harmful.

Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •