View Poll Results: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

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Thread: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

  1. #361
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    The girl wasn't as pure and chaste as you may like to believe.
    Good point, there's no such thing as rape unless the victim is perfectly pure. Every other slut totally deserves it.

    According to the Probation Officer, there was evidence that put the girl's Grand Jury testimony in doubt. But don't take my word for it, read the victim's testimony before the Grand Jury and read the Probation Officer's report. You can find them on The Smoking Gun.com
    Do you know where the probation officer obtained this amazingly exculpatory information? I'll give you three guesses.

    The girl had taken Quaaludes before - according to her testimony the first time she took a 'Lude she was 10 or 11!
    Great argument! Because if someone ever uses drugs once, everyone else can feel free to rape her in the future and it's totally okay because it's her fault!

    Polanski didn't force the drugs on her - she knew exactly what she was taking, and it was voluntary!
    Nobody claimed he forced the drugs down her throat. It's the fact that he's a middle aged man giving drugs to a 13 year old in order to have sex with her that most people have a problem with. You don't seem to get this.

    She was taken in for a medical exam, the results of which showed no vaginal trauma, no anal trauma, and although there was semen present on her underwear, there was no semen present in her vagina or her anus.
    Think your argument through - are you claiming that because there was no semen present in either orifice or trauma, there wasn't vaginal or anal intercourse? You seem to acknowledge that there was intercourse later on. If there was intercourse, and the test showed that there was no trauma/semen in either orifice, then isn't that an indicator that the test isn't very reliable?

    While Polanski did have sex with the girl, it was questionable as to whether or not it was consentual - based on the evidence, or lack thereof.
    No, it's only questionable if you believe every word that he said and disbelieve every word she said, which it seems like you're quite happy to do.

    Furthermore, a person who is under the influence of drugs cannot consent. I guess they must have glossed over that in "Roman Polanski: Totally Not a ****ed-Up Rapist"

    And that, mi amigo, is why Polanski was never charged with "Rape", he was only charged with "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse".
    Yes, that's why - it has nothing to do with the fact that it's inherently difficult to prove a rape case, or with the fact that he was rich and could thus afford good lawyers, or with the fact that he pled to a lesser charge.

    Regarding your analogy - if you're doing 85 in a 55, blow a tire and lose control of the vehicle, the resulting crash killing your girlfriend who is riding in the passenger seat -- are you guilty of murder or criminally negligent manslaughter?

    Think carefully before you answer boyo, there's a big difference between those two crimes, much like the difference between rape and unlawful sexual intercourse.
    Atrocious analogy, because the elements of murder and criminally negligent manslaughter are completely different. There is no logical situation in which my blowing out a tire and crashing the car could satisfy the necessary intent to charge me with murder. In contrast, his actions in this case indicate that it's quite likely that he could (and did) formulate the necessary intent to commit rape.

    Furthermore, do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say "oh, it was only unlawful sexual intercourse"? You're acting as if the "rape" part is the only bad thing, and if it was just him giving drugs to a 13 year old and then having "consensual" sex with her, that would be totally fine.

    Finally, none of this has any bearing on the underlying issue - even if the guy is totally innocent and was framed by this conniving 13 year old, that doesn't mean he gets to flee the country. He's still going to jail, too bad, so sad.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 10-12-09 at 04:38 AM.
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  2. #362
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Good point, there's no such thing as rape unless the victim is perfectly pure. Every other slut totally deserves it.
    You're portraying Polanski as some "Chester the Molester" type who hangs out at the local kindergarten and seduces Campfire Girls - which is not the truth in this instance.


    Do you know where the probation officer obtained this amazingly exculpatory information? I'll give you three guesses.
    Interviews with the victim, the victim's mother, and the defendant.


    Great argument! Because if someone ever uses drugs once, everyone else can feel free to rape her in the future and it's totally okay because it's her fault!
    Read the testimony - especially the part where she told Polanski what the effect of taking a Quaalude would be. Apparently your little 13 year-old Snow White had more experience with 'Ludes than Polanski did.


    Nobody claimed he forced the drugs down her throat. It's the fact that he's a middle aged man giving drugs to a 13 year old in order to have sex with her that most people have a problem with. You don't seem to get this.
    And you know that he gave her the drugs in order to have sex with her because...?

    Go to page 27 of the Probation Officers report, and read the part about how the event was neither aggressive or forceful, how the circumstances were provocative, how the victim's mother was permissive, how the victim was physically mature and willing, and the lack of coercion by the defendant.

    Read up boyo!

    Think your argument through - are you claiming that because there was no semen present in either orifice or trauma, there wasn't vaginal or anal intercourse? You seem to acknowledge that there was intercourse later on. If there was intercourse, and the test showed that there was no trauma/semen in either orifice, then isn't that an indicator that the test isn't very reliable?
    Not at all. Lack of trauma would indicate either, a) no penetration, or, b) penetration that wasn't accompanied by force. Lack of semen proves either, a) no intercourse, or, b) intercourse without climax. However, the girl testified that Polanski climaxed in her anus, but the test showed no evidence of semen inside her anus. I suppose you'll now posit how Polanski felched a snowball from her after he was done.


    No, it's only questionable if you believe every word that he said and disbelieve every word she said, which it seems like you're quite happy to do.
    Nope, I just believe what the Grand Jury testimony and the Probation Officer have written. I also believe that if the DA's office could have proved the six Grand Jury charges against Polanski, they would have prosecuted him for them. But, since they dropped 5 of the 6 charges... maybe their case was weak.
    Furthermore, a person who is under the influence of drugs cannot consent. I guess they must have glossed over that in "Roman Polanski: Totally Not a ****ed-Up Rapist"
    The girl said that she took about 1/3 of a Quaalude, it's unknown whether it was a 300mg or a 150mg 'Lude. Hardly sounds like she was FUBAR, if you ask me.

    Yes, that's why - it has nothing to do with the fact that it's inherently difficult to prove a rape case, or with the fact that he was rich and could thus afford good lawyers, or with the fact that he pled to a lesser charge.
    According to testimony, Polanski made about $60K in 1976. I wouldn't exactly call that "rich".

    Atrocious analogy, because the elements of murder and criminally negligent manslaughter are completely different. There is no logical situation in which my blowing out a tire and crashing the car could satisfy the necessary intent to charge me with murder. In contrast, his actions in this case indicate that it's quite likely that he could (and did) formulate the necessary intent to commit rape.
    Absolutely correct, just as the elements of rape and unlawful sexual intercourse are completely different - a fact that you seem to be painfully obtuse to recognize.
    Furthermore, do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say "oh, it was only unlawful sexual intercourse"? You're acting as if the "rape" part is the only bad thing, and if it was just him giving drugs to a 13 year old and then having "consensual" sex with her, that would be totally fine.
    Do I sound as ridiculous as you when you continually scream about how Polanski "RAPED" this poor, innocent, virginal, chaste young girl - when the facts of the case indicate that very probably she was a willing participant?

    Don't you think that if the DA could have thrown the book at Polanski, they would have - regardless of the tragedy he'd previously suffered?

    Seriously, stop for a second and think - it is maybe possible that not only was this young girl not raped, but that she in fact had an underlying motive? Is it not possible that perhaps a young woman would have sex with an older man in order to perhaps start a career in Hollywood? Or, do you believe that the law is absolutely, totally, 110% correct, and that prosecutors and judges never, ever, EVER commit any kind of dastardly acts in order to advance a case?

    Finally, none of this has any bearing on the underlying issue - even if the guy is totally innocent and was framed by this conniving 13 year old, that doesn't mean he gets to flee the country. He's still going to jail, too bad, so sad.
    You're right, it doesn't. While you may have complete and total faith in the fairness of the judicial system, I don't. And, were I Roman Polanski and saw how I was about to get screwed - you can bet your ass I'd be on the next eastbound 747!

    The bitter irony to this entire story is this - Polanski had been sentenced to 90 days in jail to undergo a psychiatric evaluation. Polanski was released after 42 days, because two psychiatrists who examined him felt he wasn't a danger to society. Judge Rittenband was supposedly going to sentence Polanski to the remainder of the 90 day term - 48 days - and... institute proceedings to have him deported from the United States. Instead, Polanski fled the United States and has remained in self-imposed exile for 30+ years - because he didn't want to be deported. This is much like the person who tells their boss "You can't fire me, I quit!" - the net result is the same.
    Last edited by SpotsCat; 10-12-09 at 06:04 AM.
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  3. #363
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    I cannot understand that. Once in a while there are debates about child moelstors and many people exceed each other in the demands of most horrible executions. If you state in such a situation that even a child molestor has human rights and that you don't want mid age executions take place anymore, many people are condemning you as an apologist.

    If the child molestor made good movies and simply escaped from his reponsibility and you just state that there must be a trial and that his escape should not be rewarded, you get enormous contradiction as well.

    To the comment that this is no stereotypical child rape I can only say there is no stereotypical child rape.

    I think he is prominent and some people who defend him would discuss how to torture him to death if he was a guy with a 35 000 Dollar paycheck per year.
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  4. #364
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    The fact remains this guy had sex, weather it was consensual or not, with a 13 year old. He admitted as much in his own documentary. Last I knew having sex with a 13 year old is crime no matter what. The age of legal consent in California I believe is 16. The very fact that his semen was on her panties would have been enough alone to get him on statutory rape charges in any court of law.

    Drugs were used. Doesn't matter if her past history indicates that she used that drug before or not. The fact that this was an adult giving the drug to a 13 year old shows that he was wanting to have sex with her in the first place. IE this was premeditated. Hell the fact that he even had what is termed as a date rape drug shows the sex was premeditated.

    He also admitted that he gave wine, an alcoholic beverage, to this girl. Contributing to a delinquency I believe is the term. And lets face it...how many teenagers would turn down an alcoholic beverage?

    How anyone can defend this douche bag is beyond me.
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    According to testimony, Polanski made about $60K in 1976. I wouldn't exactly call that "rich".
    Consider the times man. Back then you could buy a new home for 48k. The median houshold income was a little over 12k. Gas only cost .59 cents per gallon, etc etc.

    The guy was rich for the timeline.
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  6. #366
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    The girl wasn't as pure and chaste as you may like to believe. According to the Probation Officer, there was evidence that put the girl's Grand Jury testimony in doubt. But don't take my word for it, read the victim's testimony before the Grand Jury and read the Probation Officer's report. You can find them on The Smoking Gun.com

    The girl had taken Quaaludes before - according to her testimony the first time she took a 'Lude she was 10 or 11! Polanski didn't force the drugs on her - she knew exactly what she was taking, and it was voluntary!

    She was taken in for a medical exam, the results of which showed no vaginal trauma, no anal trauma, and although there was semen present on her underwear, there was no semen present in her vagina or her anus.

    While Polanski did have sex with the girl, it was questionable as to whether or not it was consentual - based on the evidence, or lack thereof.

    And that, mi amigo, is why Polanski was never charged with "Rape", he was only charged with "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse".

    Regarding your analogy - if you're doing 85 in a 55, blow a tire and lose control of the vehicle, the resulting crash killing your girlfriend who is riding in the passenger seat -- are you guilty of murder or criminally negligent manslaughter?

    Think carefully before you answer boyo, there's a big difference between those two crimes, much like the difference between rape and unlawful sexual intercourse.
    None of that excuses a middle aged man from having sex with a drugged up 13 year old though. He plead guilty, fled before sentencing. He needs to be brought back for sentencing and tried for fleeing the country.
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  7. #367
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It should have read:

    ...and what happened to you? You used to be extremely reasonable... learning all the wrong things at University?

    Having a differing opinion from you on one issue now makes me far less reasonable? Okay, then.
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  8. #368
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Having a differing opinion from you on one issue now makes me far less reasonable? Okay, then.
    To this?

    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    It is ridiculous to think of a consequence as reasonable?

    You are claiming that a consequence must be revenge then? Huh?

    You think that ethics are ridiculous as well? Seriously? WTF?

    Lastly, you think that psychological damage to victims in no way impairs their reasoning or impartial outlook?

    Ummm... I have no idea what to say, I am simply shocked that you would say such a thing. Astounded really....
    Well yes, to thinking that a consequence is unreasonable, that a consequence must be revenge (making all parents seekers of revenge on their little 2 year-olds revenge seekers), that ethics are ridiculous and that psychological damage doesn't affect peoples outlook... yes, yes it certainly does make you far less reasonable than I remember.

    The consequence for speeding is a ticket. The consequence for murder is to be arrested and have a trial, etc. I have never EVER heard a person say that a consequence to an action is ridiculous. That is one of the most bizarre things that I have literally ever heard.

    That is just the first one... I simply remember you as one that held keen analytical skills and it seems that you have traded in impartial reasoning with a massive socialist agenda. That is what I have seen and may not be correct though... but this is more evidence. All good. Just an observation. Doesn;t make you less of a person or anything... fret not.


    Originally Posted by Ikari
    None of that excuses a middle aged man from having sex with a drugged up 13 year old though. He plead guilty, fled before sentencing. He needs to be brought back for sentencing and tried for fleeing the country.
    I agree... if she was "drugged and raped". What really happened, I can't seem to find that info... it sounds like she was partying, promiscuous and horny from what I have read and the witnesses that were there though.
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  9. #369
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I agree... if she was "drugged and raped". What really happened, I can't seem to find that info... it sounds like she was partying, promiscuous and horny from what I have read and the witnesses that were there though.
    She was 13. It doesn't matter, he was a middle aged creep, she was 13. She testified to saying no. He plead guilty. That's it. End of story. He was supposed to be sentenced, he ran away to France. His **** caught up to him 30 years later. Deal with it.
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  10. #370
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    She was 13. It doesn't matter, he was a middle aged creep, she was 13. She testified to saying no. He plead guilty. That's it. End of story. He was supposed to be sentenced, he ran away to France. His **** caught up to him 30 years later. Deal with it.
    She isn't 13 anymore. She is in her 40s and has asked for the case against him to be dismissed.

    I agree that the guy was a creep, and I didn't even like his movies all that well, but I don't see the benefit in seeking justice for the woman against her wishes.

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