View Poll Results: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

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Thread: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

  1. #351
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's a difference between fleeing China and fleeing the US.

    We have a robust legal system with all sorts of opportunities for criminal defendants to have their case heard. As a famous rich white man, Polanski was basically in the best position that anyone could ever be in. The fact of the matter is that anyone who was not a) rich, b) white, or c) famous, wouldn't even have been offered the plea deal that Polanski was.

    Finally, there's a very important fact that has been glossed over by almost everyone because it's a relatively legalistic distinction: No plea deal was broken. Polanski was never promised anything.

    The way the plea that he was offered works is that the defendant is subject to a 90-day psych evaluation. At the end of that period, probation makes a recommendation to the judge. The judge does not have to follow that recommendation. The judge can sentence the defendant to anything he wants.

    The news media, in its total inability to understand legal issues, has painted this as a situation where Polanski was promised a particular plea deal but the judge broke some rule and reneged on the deal. This is completely false. Polanski and his lawyers knew full well when he accepted the deal that he could be sentenced to a much longer jail term. They didn't think it would happen. When he found out it might, he tweaked out and bounced.
    that is un ****ing believable

    you mean a judge wanted a pedophile to actually serve jailtime? WTF is this world coming too? We need to through polanski a party and give him an honorarium for all he has suffered

    /sarcasm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  2. #352
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Non-reply statement. Try again.
    It clearly was a reply to your statement.
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's a difference between fleeing China and fleeing the US. (edited fpr brevity)

    The news media, in its total inability to understand legal issues, has painted this as a situation where Polanski was promised a particular plea deal but the judge broke some rule and reneged on the deal. This is completely false. Polanski and his lawyers knew full well when he accepted the deal that he could be sentenced to a much longer jail term. They didn't think it would happen. When he found out it might, he tweaked out and bounced.
    This is from today's New York Times -- Entire article here.

    (bold type mine) But a less widely noted probation officer’s report prepared in September of 1977 gives a jarring reminder that Mr. Polanski’s behavior at the time was being treated by key officials more as an exercise of bad judgment than as a vicious assault. It is a window into how sex crimes, especially when they involved Hollywood luminaries, were viewed in that era.

    The report, submitted by acting probation officer Kenneth F. Fare, and signed by a deputy, Irwin Gold, recommended that Mr. Polanski receive probation without jail time for his conviction on one count of having unlawful sex with a minor. In a summary paragraph, the report said: “Jail is not being recommended at the present time. The present offense appears to have been spontaneous and an exercise of poor judgement by the defendant.” It went on to note that the victim and her parent, as well as an examining psychiatrist, recommended against jail, while a second psychiatrist described the offense as neither “aggressive nor forceful.”

    Despite Ms. Geimer’s age and her testimony that she had objected to having sex with Mr. Polanski and asked to leave Jack Nicholson’s house, where the incident occurred, the probation report concluded, “There was some indication that circumstances were provocative, that there was some permissiveness by the mother,” and “that the victim was not only physically mature, but willing.”

    The report noted all of the assertions Ms. Geimer made in her grand jury testimony, along with the list of original charges, which included rape by drugs and sodomy. It also noted that a test “strongly indicates semen” on the girl’s underclothes, but that vaginal and anal slides were negative, and there was no evidence of physical trauma.

    Mr. Polanski, interviewed by the probation officer, said he had not realized that his request to photograph Ms. Geimer without a top was problematic. “Topless photograph is acceptable in Europe. I didn’t realize it was objectionable here,” he said.

    According to Mr. Polanski, “the whole thing was very spontaneous. It was not planned,” he told the probation officer. And, said the report, he “expressed great remorse regarding any possible effect the present offense might have upon the victim.”

    One psychiatrist who examined Mr. Polanski, Alvin E. Davis, found he was not mentally ill or disordered, and not “a sexual deviate.” “He is of superior intelligence, has good judgement and strong moral and ethical values,” the report said of Dr. Davis’s conclusions.

    “He is not a pedophile,” Dr. Davis is quoted as saying. “The offense occurred as an isolated instance of transient poor judgement and loss of normal inhibitions in circumstances of intimacy and collaboration in creative work, and with some coincidental alcohol and drug intoxication.”

    Dr. Davis was also quoted as saying that “incarceration would serve no necessary or useful purpose.” Another psychiatrist, Dr. Ronald Markman, was quoted as saying that Mr. Polanski was “not a mentally disordered sex offender, and therefore, not in need of hospitalization".

    So, the report concluded, remorse, cultural differences, a certain permissiveness and provocation, and the unlikelihood of a repeat offense conspired to make probation without jail (beyond the 42 days Mr. Polanski served while being evaluated) an appropriate punishment for Mr. Polanski’s actions toward a 13-year-old girl. But Mr. Polanski fled when Judge Laurence J. Rittenband indicated that more jail time and possible deportation were in order.
    Five of six original charges were dropped, and the rape charge has been reduced to the lesser charge of "unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor" - which carries a sentence of up to one year in jail, or 2-4 years in prison, and a possible $25,000 civil fine. California Penal Code 261.5

    Maybe it wasn't a "plea bargain" per se, but Polanski had been led to believe that if he pled guilty, he'd receive a light sentence - most probably probation. Then, when he found out that the judge wasn't going to go along...

    Like Chris Rock said about O.J. -- "I'm not saying he should have killed her, but I understand!"
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  4. #354
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It clearly was a reply to your statement.
    It should have read:

    Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Non-reply statement TO MY SPECIFIC POINT. Try again.
    ...and what happened to you? You used to be extremely reasonable... learning all the wrong things at University?
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  5. #355
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    This is from today's New York Times -- Entire article here.
    What exactly are you trying to say with the first thing that you bolded? His rape is somehow less rape because he claimed that she wanted it?

    Maybe it wasn't a "plea bargain" per se, but Polanski had been led to believe that if he pled guilty, he'd receive a light sentence - most probably probation. Then, when he found out that the judge wasn't going to go along...
    And whose fault is that? I can guarantee you that before he agreed to the plea deal, he was told in no uncertain terms by the court that there was no guarantee of a light sentence. On his lawyers advice, he entered into the agreement anyway. This happens to criminal defendants every single day - Polanski is not special. You don't get a freebie just because you didn't get the outcome you hoped for.

    Like Chris Rock said about O.J. -- "I'm not saying he should have killed her, but I understand!"
    I understand why he did it, as it worked out pretty well for him. It's nice to be rich and famous enough that you can flee prosecution and live in luxury abroad for decades. That doesn't mean he's not a piece of **** who's getting what he deserves.
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What exactly are you trying to say with the first thing that you bolded? His rape is somehow less rape because he claimed that she wanted it?
    FWIW - It's not "Rape" it's "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse", they're two seperate crimes. Check out the link to the California Penal Code I hyperlinked to previously to read the difference.

    Polanski was originally arrested for Unlawful Sexual Intercourse, and after the Grand Jury testimony of the girl, five additional charges were added - Furnishing Quaaludes to a Minor, Child Molestation, Rape by Use of Drugs, Sodomy, and Oral Copulation. These five charges were dropped, and Polanski pled guilty to the Unlawful Sexual Intercourse charge.

    Read the Probation Officer's report HERE.


    And whose fault is that? I can guarantee you that before he agreed to the plea deal, he was told in no uncertain terms by the court that there was no guarantee of a light sentence. On his lawyers advice, he entered into the agreement anyway. This happens to criminal defendants every single day - Polanski is not special. You don't get a freebie just because you didn't get the outcome you hoped for.
    According to recent media reports, a Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney says he went to the judge and counseled him on what sentence to give Polanski - a clear violation of legal ethics. However, David Wells - the DDA - now says he lied in a documentary movie that was made about the case, a movie where Wells admitted that he advised the judge on how to proceed, and that he lied in order to make himself look good. Article HERE.

    I understand why he did it, as it worked out pretty well for him. It's nice to be rich and famous enough that you can flee prosecution and live in luxury abroad for decades. That doesn't mean he's not a piece of **** who's getting what he deserves.
    Not true, not true at all. Rich and famous has nothing to do with it - you can commit murder and for the price of a bus ticket you can avoid extradition to the United States... all you have to do is be a Mexican citizen. Escaping Justice.com
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  7. #357
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    FWIW - It's not "Rape" it's "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse", they're two seperate crimes. Check out the link to the California Penal Code I hyperlinked to previously to read the difference.

    Polanski was originally arrested for Unlawful Sexual Intercourse, and after the Grand Jury testimony of the girl, five additional charges were added - Furnishing Quaaludes to a Minor, Child Molestation, Rape by Use of Drugs, Sodomy, and Oral Copulation. These five charges were dropped, and Polanski pled guilty to the Unlawful Sexual Intercourse charge.
    The fact that he ended up pleading to a lesser charge doesn't change the fact that what he did was rape.

    According to recent media reports, a Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney says he went to the judge and counseled him on what sentence to give Polanski - a clear violation of legal ethics. However, David Wells - the DDA - now says he lied in a documentary movie that was made about the case, a movie where Wells admitted that he advised the judge on how to proceed, and that he lied in order to make himself look good.
    What part of that changes anything I posted? If this DA broke some ethical rules, the state bar can look into it. That doesn't mean that Polanski gets a get out of jail free card.

    Not true, not true at all. Rich and famous has nothing to do with it - you can commit murder and for the price of a bus ticket you can avoid extradition to the United States... all you have to do is be a Mexican citizen. Escaping Justice.com
    There's a difference between living as an underground fugitive in Mexico and living as the toast of the town in Paris.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The fact that he ended up pleading to a lesser charge doesn't change the fact that what he did was rape.
    As before, what Polanski did wasn't rape - it was unlawful sexual intercourse. He was never arrested on rape charges, and only briefly charged with Rape by Use of Drugs - a charge that was later dismissed.

    What part of that changes anything I posted? If this DA broke some ethical rules, the state bar can look into it. That doesn't mean that Polanski gets a get out of jail free card.
    It goes way beyond a state bar investigation - we're talking violation of court proceedures, judicial misconduct, as well as unethical behavior. Any and all of which are clear grounds for dismissal.

    Polanski has an appeal asking for dismissal of his case before the United States Appellate Court - the legendary "9th Circus Court of Appeals" - on these very charges.

    I suggest that you watch the movie "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" with an open mind and see if you don't get the impression that - irregardless of what Polanski did - that he was the victim of a judicial system gone amok.
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  9. #359
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    As before, what Polanski did wasn't rape - it was unlawful sexual intercourse. He was never arrested on rape charges, and only briefly charged with Rape by Use of Drugs - a charge that was later dismissed.
    What do you call it when someone drugs a 13 year old girl and then forcible penetrates her against her wishes? I call it rape, and I don't see how any reasonable person could call it anything else.

    Again, taking a lesser plea doesn't mean that the underlying events disappear. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept.

    If I get pulled over for doing 85 in a 55 but convince the judge to lower the charges to having a busted tail light, does that mean that I didn't do 85 in a 55?

    It goes way beyond a state bar investigation - we're talking violation of court proceedures, judicial misconduct, as well as unethical behavior. Any and all of which are clear grounds for dismissal.
    Says who? If the court finds that they're clear grounds for dismissal of the underlying charges, they can dismiss them. If they don't, they won't. None of that changes the fact that:

    1) He drugged and raped a 13 year old, and
    2) He fled the country

    Polanski has an appeal asking for dismissal of his case before the United States Appellate Court - the legendary "9th Circus Court of Appeals" - on these very charges.
    Let me know how "the legendary" 9th Circuit rules.

    I suggest that you watch the movie "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" with an open mind and see if you don't get the impression that - irregardless of what Polanski did - that he was the victim of a judicial system gone amok.
    I suggest that you look at the actual facts rather than propaganda and stop trying to pretend that it's no big deal to rape a child and flee the country.

    I'm really astonished at the people who have come out of the woodwork to defend this guy. If this was Jamal Jones, a poor brother from the block, nobody would give a **** about this case. Instead of making movies about his innocence, they'd be asking for the electric chair.
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    Re: Should Roman Polanski be punished for his crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What do you call it when someone drugs a 13 year old girl and then forcible penetrates her against her wishes? I call it rape, and I don't see how any reasonable person could call it anything else.

    Again, taking a lesser plea doesn't mean that the underlying events disappear. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept.

    If I get pulled over for doing 85 in a 55 but convince the judge to lower the charges to having a busted tail light, does that mean that I didn't do 85 in a 55?
    The girl wasn't as pure and chaste as you may like to believe. According to the Probation Officer, there was evidence that put the girl's Grand Jury testimony in doubt. But don't take my word for it, read the victim's testimony before the Grand Jury and read the Probation Officer's report. You can find them on The Smoking Gun.com

    The girl had taken Quaaludes before - according to her testimony the first time she took a 'Lude she was 10 or 11! Polanski didn't force the drugs on her - she knew exactly what she was taking, and it was voluntary!

    She was taken in for a medical exam, the results of which showed no vaginal trauma, no anal trauma, and although there was semen present on her underwear, there was no semen present in her vagina or her anus.

    While Polanski did have sex with the girl, it was questionable as to whether or not it was consentual - based on the evidence, or lack thereof.

    And that, mi amigo, is why Polanski was never charged with "Rape", he was only charged with "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse".

    Regarding your analogy - if you're doing 85 in a 55, blow a tire and lose control of the vehicle, the resulting crash killing your girlfriend who is riding in the passenger seat -- are you guilty of murder or criminally negligent manslaughter?

    Think carefully before you answer boyo, there's a big difference between those two crimes, much like the difference between rape and unlawful sexual intercourse.
    Last edited by SpotsCat; 10-12-09 at 04:16 AM.
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