View Poll Results: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

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  • The President-Civilian Control

    26 52.00%
  • The Joint Chiefs-The Military Professionals

    0 0%
  • The President, but the military should decide battlefield tactics.

    24 48.00%
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Thread: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

  1. #151
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Yes, I remember memorizing my general orders. Note number 6, it is important to this discussion.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes, I remember memorizing my general orders. Note number 6, it is important to this discussion.
    It blows your argument out of the water is what it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, there are some orders the President cannot directly issue to military personnel due to his lack of knowledge. I know that when Pres. Bush was aboard our ship, he was going to tour the Reactor spaces. Including the reactor control space. The personnel who directly operate the reactors were informed that, due to reactor safety regulations, the President could not touch the controls for the reactor, nor could he order the personnel to do anything with those controls without express permission from the officer in charge. The President does not have the knowledge of how our reactors operate and could cause a major problem.
    I guess that would preclude a President from performing open heart surgery at VA hospitals as well.
    (The Constitution does not require the suspension of common sense)
    Last edited by Devil505; 10-05-09 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes, I remember memorizing my general orders. Note number 6, it is important to this discussion.
    I did. I was actually going to point that one out specifically to you. That one has specifically who can give you orders while on watch. The President is not one of those people.

    6. To receive, obey and pass on to the sentry who relieves me, all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the Watch only.

    The President is not the same as any of the mentioned positions.
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    (The Constitution does not require the suspension of common sense)
    That's why a functional and rigid chain of command exists, because from reading this thread, there are some folks who would gladly suspend common sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's why a functional and rigid chain of command exists, because from reading this thread, there are some folks who would gladly suspend common sense.
    Speaking of common sense, if you were still in the military, would YOU refuse a legal order from the POTUS if he gave you one?

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Speaking of common sense, if you were still in the military, would YOU refuse a legal order from the POTUS if he gave you one?
    It would depend very much on the order. Plus, it would depend on if my chain of command made amswerable directly to the president. Care to work up a few, "what-ifs", and I can tell you yes/no on each?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It would depend very much on the order. Plus, it would depend on if my chain of command made amswerable directly to the president. Care to work up a few, "what-ifs", and I can tell you yes/no on each?
    OK...You are an Army private on fire watch & the POTUS comes up to you & orders you to chew some gum..... & then stick it onto the tip of your nose for the balance of your watch.

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I did. I was actually going to point that one out specifically to you. That one has specifically who can give you orders while on watch. The President is not one of those people.

    6. To receive, obey and pass on to the sentry who relieves me, all orders from the Commanding Officer, Command Duty Officer, Officer of the Deck, and Officers and Petty Officers of the Watch only.

    The President is not the same as any of the mentioned positions.
    You miss the point. The reason in that case for the only is you are in a specialized situation. An order to do other than your watch orders are illegal orders. However, notice the key point, which is that your CO can give you an order directly without going through the chain of command. If you are not on watch, then the president can give you orders directly, without the chain of command as well. The chain of command argument is false.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You miss the point. The reason in that case for the only is you are in a specialized situation. An order to do other than your watch orders are illegal orders. However, notice the key point, which is that your CO can give you an order directly without going through the chain of command. If you are not on watch, then the president can give you orders directly, without the chain of command as well. The chain of command argument is false.
    The point is that it is not false in all circumstances, specifically while on watch. The CO better know what's going on with his equipment/base/personnel, so yes, he can bypass the rest of that specific chain, because of that fact. However, anyone not in your specific chain while on watch, their orders should all be cleared through someone in that chain of command prior to you following them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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