View Poll Results: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

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  • The President-Civilian Control

    26 52.00%
  • The Joint Chiefs-The Military Professionals

    0 0%
  • The President, but the military should decide battlefield tactics.

    24 48.00%
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Thread: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

  1. #131
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No where in there does it say that he can issue orders directly to line units.
    You have got to be kidding.

    What part of "Commander and Chief" are you misunderstanding?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Besides that, he doesn't have the qualifications to issue such orders, thereby making those orders, illegal in military terms.
    This is why he has military and civilian advisor's.

    Also point out why this is illegal? Or where it says this is illegal?

    So far you have submitted nothing to prove your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the president ordered you to fuse your projectiles prior to transport, are you going to do it, or are you going to explain to him in a highly professional manner why that's a bad idea and how it's not going to happen?
    Ridicules fallacy argument. The President would not have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If a doctor, who held the rank of colonel came to your piece and issued you an order, are you going to follow it, if you think it's a bad idea?
    More fallacy.

    Let me leave you with your own words yet again...

    "Can the president give the president issues orders to a small unit on the battlefield, is it leagal? Constitutionally speaking, sure." - apdst

    Again the rest of your argument is nothing but fallacy and double speak.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 10-04-09 at 09:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #132
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have got to be kidding.

    What part of "Commander and Chief" are you misunderstanding?



    This is why he has military and civilian advisor's.

    Also point out why this is illegal? Or where it says this is illegal?

    So far you have submitted nothing to prove your point.



    Ridicules fallacy argument. The President would not have to.



    More fallacy.

    Let me leave you with your own words yet again...

    "Can the president give the president issues orders to a small unit on the battlefield, is it leagal? Constitutionally speaking, sure." - apdst

    Again the rest of your argument is nothing but fallacy and double speak.
    Hence, the president doesn't have the last say on combat tactics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #133
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Hence, the president doesn't have the last say on combat tactics.
    But he could by law if he deemed it necessary.

    End of story.

    I also notice you ignored all my questions to your bogus replies.

    Go figure.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 10-04-09 at 09:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #134
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    But he could by law if he deemed it necessary.

    End of story.

    I also notice you ignored all my questions to your bogus replies.

    Go figure.
    There are exceptions to every rule, of course.

    However, AR-600-20 details the Army's Command Policy and explains in detail how the chain of command is to be utilized and gives no provision for circumvention of the chain of command.

    a. The chain of command assists commanders at all levels to achieve their primary responsibility of accomplishing the unit's assigned mission while caring for personnel and property in their charge. A simple and direct chain of command facilitates the transmittal of orders from the highest to the lowest levels in a minimum of time and with the least chance of misinterpretation. The command channel extends upward in the same manner for matters requiring official communication from subordinate to senior.

    AR_600-20
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #135
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Besides that, he doesn't have the qualifications to issue such orders, thereby making those orders, illegal in military terms.
    The POTUS does not need whatever qualifications you think he needs to issue orders. And even if he did you'd be hard pressed to find a single President who gave military orders without the input of military advisers. Even Bush as misguided as his orders were had the input of people in the military. The Constitution grants the President the authority/power to make such orders.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There are exceptions to every rule, of course.

    However, AR-600-20 details the Army's Command Policy and explains in detail how the chain of command is to be utilized and gives no provision for circumvention of the chain of command.
    Again this has nothing to do with the civilian president.

    You have no argument and are just blowing smoke at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #137
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Again this has nothing to do with the civilian president.

    You have no argument and are just blowing smoke at this point.
    Don't stop him though, I am having a lot of fun watching aspdt make himself look foolish.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #138
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Again this has nothing to do with the civilian president.

    You have no argument and are just blowing smoke at this point.
    It involves the chain of command. Are you now saying that since the president is a civilian, he can bypass military regulations at will?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #139
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The POTUS does not need whatever qualifications you think he needs to issue orders. And even if he did you'd be hard pressed to find a single President who gave military orders without the input of military advisers. Even Bush as misguided as his orders were had the input of people in the military. The Constitution grants the President the authority/power to make such orders.
    Actually, there are some orders the President cannot directly issue to military personnel due to his lack of knowledge. I know that when Pres. Bush was aboard our ship, he was going to tour the Reactor spaces. Including the reactor control space. The personnel who directly operate the reactors were informed that, due to reactor safety regulations, the President could not touch the controls for the reactor, nor could he order the personnel to do anything with those controls without express permission from the officer in charge. The President does not have the knowledge of how our reactors operate and could cause a major problem.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Who Should Have Final Say On Military Matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, there are some orders the President cannot directly issue to military personnel due to his lack of knowledge. I know that when Pres. Bush was aboard our ship, he was going to tour the Reactor spaces. Including the reactor control space. The personnel who directly operate the reactors were informed that, due to reactor safety regulations, the President could not touch the controls for the reactor, nor could he order the personnel to do anything with those controls without express permission from the officer in charge. The President does not have the knowledge of how our reactors operate and could cause a major problem.
    Another great example of how the president can't just do what he wants, simply by virtue of being the president.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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