View Poll Results: Should the poor be given free money?

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  • No, not at all

    17 37.78%
  • Yes, but only the poorest of the poor

    6 13.33%
  • Yes, everyone below the poverty line

    10 22.22%
  • Other

    12 26.67%
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Thread: Welfare for the Poor

  1. #1
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    Welfare for the Poor

    So I was doing research on the War on Poverty and wondered what everyone thought of welfare, always a divisive issue.

    I suck at opening posts, so just discuss already.


    EDIT: I am referring specifically to government programs here, not charities. Just wanted to make that clear.
    Last edited by Dav; 09-26-09 at 06:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    They should be given money only if I or other people choose to give it to them. I don't want other people deciding what I have to do with my money.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #3
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    They should be given money only if I or other people choose to give it to them. I don't want other people deciding what I have to do with my money.
    Do you want no government at all, then? Or at least no taxes at all?

  4. #4
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Do you want no government at all, then? Or at least no taxes at all?
    I only want to pay taxes that go toward protection from intimidation. So I only want to pay a flat rate sales tax.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    The economic irrationality of that is obvious, considering the existence of diminishing marginal utility.

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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    I would need to see in what amounts, who exactly it went to, and how exactly it was spent.

    I do not have a problem with something like unemployment benefits, but people should not be relying on government handouts for their livelihood for extended periods of time, unless there is some serious special circumstance.

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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Should have other options.

    Yes by those who choose to give.

    Yes by those who choose to take money from others and then give to the poor.

    The no's are fine.
    Thank you

  8. #8
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    The economic irrationality of that is obvious, considering the existence of diminishing marginal utility.
    The economic irrationality of your position is obvious, considering the existence of ethics.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #9
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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    There's a need to challenge the prevailing misconceptions about the welfare state and its role in the capitalist economy, which is often incorrectly regarded as an insertion of "socialism." What needs to be realized is that welfare provisions are far more than a matter of "the poor are starving; let's SAVE them!" and actually play an integral role in efficiency maximization in the capitalist economy. For example, we could refer to Headey et al.'s Is There a Trade-Off Between Economic Efficiency and a Generous Welfare State? A Comparison of Best Cases of `The Three Worlds of Welfare Capitalism’. Consider the abstract:

    A crucial debate in policy-making as well as academic circles is whether there is a trade-off between economic efficiency and the size/generosity of the welfare state. One way to contribute to this debate is to compare the performance of best cases of different types of state. Arguably, in the decade 1985-94, the US, West Germany and the Netherlands were best cases - best economic performers - in what G. Esping-Andersen calls the three worlds of welfare capitalism. The US is a liberal welfare-capitalist state, West Germany a corporatist state, and the Netherlands is social democratic in its tax-transfer system, although not its labor market policies. These three countries had rates of economic growth per capita as high or higher than other rich countries of their type, and the lowest rates of unemployment. At a normative or ideological level the three types of state have the same goals but prioritise them differently. The liberal state prioritises economic growth and efficiency, avoids work disincentives, and targets welfare benefits only to those in greatest need. The corporatist state aims to give priority to social stability, especially household income stability, and social integration. The social democratic welfare state claims high priority for minimising poverty, inequality and unemployment. Using ten years of panel data for each country, we assess indicators of their short (one year), medium (five year) and longer term (ten year) performance in achieving economic and welfare goals. Overall, in this time period, the Netherlands achieved the best performance on the welfare goals to which it gave priority, and equalled the other two states on most of the goals to which they gave priority. This result supports the view that there is no necessary trade-off between economic efficiency and a generous welfare state.
    It's not just a matter of not losing efficiency either, but also gaining efficiency, since unemployment is a form of static inefficiency, though it's not typically conceptualized in such terms.

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    Re: Welfare for the Poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The economic irrationality of your position is obvious, considering the existence of ethics.
    That wouldn't prove the economic irrationality of my position, but you could never defend the arrangement that you favor on a sound ethical basis anyway.

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